00:00.00
Preston Lee
Hey there and welcome to this Q&A episode of Freelance to Founder as a lot of chances are you’ll know we do these query and reply episodes every Tuesday and our full teaching classes with freelancers similar to you on Thursdays so we’ll do quick one a at the moment after which we’ll catch you this coming Thursday with a full-leng teaching episode. Ah, becoming a member of me on the air at the moment is Clay Mosley from gettripify.com hey clay going. Properly undecided if I launched myself as a result of we we do batch document these however cash I’m at milo.co and and we’re going to reply really a query at the moment I don’t.
00:23.31
Clay
A person has gone.
00:31.14
Clay
Um, however.
00:38.28
Preston Lee
I Don’t know my guess is that this isn’t this particular person’s actual title whether it is I’m sorry I laughed but it surely’s a it’s like a a cool branded title however I don’t assume it’s an actual title query this query I’m going to completely edit this out this query clay although comes from.
00:49.23
Clay
Um, perhaps you possibly can edit this? Ah ah.
00:57.10
Preston Lee
Pennygoo pettigoo so that you inform me actual title.
00:58.88
Clay
That would I imply it is determined by the place this particular person’s from I imply I imply there there I jogs my memory of I don’t bear in mind what film it was however any individual was in a classroom instructing and so they say.
01:04.90
Preston Lee
Ah, yeah, you’re proper I simply.
01:16.64
Clay
They have been doing roll name and so they mentioned prepare dinner poo is anyone right here is prepare dinner poo right here and so they thought it was a joke but it surely was really any individual from I don’t bear in mind Asia or one thing it was actual now as a comedy. It was a comedy film. So like.
01:28.74
Preston Lee
Um, I positive I feel I feel um, the title penny goo is is much less ah is much less my concern or much less. The rationale that I feel and extra that that like what are the chances that your first title is pengu. And your final title is penny goo feels I don’t know however in any case penny goo we’re going to reply your query at the moment.
01:47.24
Clay
Yeah I don’t know and any case we’re gonna edit out the like the primary two minutes of this video.
01:57.34
Preston Lee
Ah, um, let’s learn the query right here says ah Penny Goose says um I’d like recommendation on worth a contract Search engine optimization job for wordpress.
02:09.96
Preston Lee
Recognized particular issues that have to be modified largely optimizing their graphics I think about it might solely take just a few hours however I need to be sure that I go away sufficient time in case I hit any snags. So I feel for me that is like much less about pricing Search engine optimization stuff in case, you’re listening and also you’re like I don’t do Search engine optimization proper? This I feel goes to open an fascinating dialog extra about pricing.
02:25.87
Clay
The.
02:28.30
Preston Lee
So Penny Goose says I need to worth this Search engine optimization job. Ah I need to be sure that I go away sufficient time in case I hit any snags they need to be they wished to pay me by the hour but additionally are open to a venture foundation. Any ideas.
02:47.33
Preston Lee
Go? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and and actually shortly. What’s the like twenty second model of why we why we are saying don’t do hourly.
02:47.47
Clay
Sure I’ve ideas however okay, don’t do hourly I feel that’s fairly clear should you’ve ever watched ah or listened to our episodes So many instances we are saying don’t do hourly. Um.
03:04.67
Clay
Ah, as a result of us as human beings. Ah we relate hourly to low cost take into consideration all the roles on this planet and who will get paid hourly and who will get paid wage. What’s the distinction proper? You guys can put that collectively.
03:07.97
Preston Lee
M.
03:16.97
Preston Lee
Yep yep you yeah and for me, it’s additionally the the piece of such as you get punished for being higher should you receives a commission hourly. So should you’re sooner should you’re extra environment friendly you get punished as a result of it takes you much less time.
03:26.10
Clay
Sure, nicely it jogs my memory of ah there’s like a a meme or one thing on the web the place like this massive Cruise ship is damaged. You understand what I’m speaking about. Okay, so there’s there’s a there’s a a a cruise ship.
03:36.82
Preston Lee
I haven’t seen that now.
03:43.87
Clay
Or some kind of ship. Huge massive boat that’s damaged and the captain or whoever’ is like we haven’t been capable of repair it so we’re gonna rent you for I bear in mind the quantity but it surely was like $20000 or no matter 50000 you possibly can title. Anyhow, it’s a excessive worth and the man like okay. I might repair it. It’s like 50 grand and the the captain’s like okay, nice and he actually the the man the mechanic actually takes a hammer hits it as soon as and says it’s mounted and it was mounted and the man was like okay I’m not going to pay 50 grand for that and.
04:15.80
Preston Lee
Ah, yeah, okay.
04:20.20
Clay
The man was within the mechanics like nicely I spent 10 years like studying the place to hit the hammer proper? Regardless that solely took me one hit. It’s price 50 grant proper? So should you charged hourly like you possibly can’t actually try this shit.
04:26.33
Preston Lee
Yeah.
04:32.82
Preston Lee
Yeah, yeah, that’s true I the one the one so I really like that story and I’ve heard all kinds of variations now that you just defined it. Um, the one factor I hate although is that he justifies that he’s like nicely I went to varsity and and discovered the place to hit it and that i. Practiced within the area for 20 years and nowhere to hit it and no matter like for me, it’s like that stuff doesn’t matter what issues is you pay you agreed to pay me 50 grand to get your boat transferring once more. That’s what you care about you care about getting you and like and Chris Doe too is at all times like.
04:58.80
Clay
Um, yeah, yeah, that’s that’s true.
05:08.13
Preston Lee
Ah, so in that case simply because I might do it faster you need to pay me much less proper? and after which it kind of places this shopper on this catch 22 as a result of it’s like so that you worth if I you worth it extra if I do it if I take longer to do it. You need me to take longer. You’ll pay me extra if I take longer.
05:15.97
Clay
Ah, a half.
05:23.52
Clay
Pay attention.
05:26.86
Preston Lee
Proper? Which is what hourly which is coming again to pennygoo’s query like that is that’s hourly. You’re really valuing one thing taking longer to perform as a substitute of attending to the top objective of getting the ship transferring once more extra shortly is like no if should you take longer to try this. We’ll reward you with larger pay. So anyway.
05:29.68
Clay
Yeah, yeah.
05:41.74
Clay
That is what that is what doesn’t make sense with the authorized trade proper? Like why would you pay a divorce Lawyer an hourly fee they’re they’re incentivized to ensure your divorce will get drawn out proper? that doesn’t make any sense to me. Anyhow, let’s let’s transfer on.
05:56.59
Preston Lee
Um, yeah, yeah, that’s such a superb level. Yeah, okay, that was alleged to that was far more than 20 seconds I used to be my dangerous. So so.
06:00.54
Clay
Ah, however.
06:08.26
Preston Lee
You mentioned I’ve ideas first don’t cost by the hour after which I took us off on that that tangent do you’ve gotten another ideas.
06:11.27
Clay
Yep To be truthful too. I additionally went on a tangent. Um, yeah I do venture and um, you understand I feel this actually relies upon too on On. It’s simply good outdated econ 1 on 1 provide and demand you understand I feel that’s an element and what I imply by supplying Demand I imply like how booked are you? Um, which is which is demand proper? and. How a lot provide Do you’ve gotten which is your time. Um, in case you have excessive demand and low Provide. You need to cost larger if it’s Reverse. You need to cost decrease my opinion.
06:46.50
Preston Lee
Yep.
06:53.96
Preston Lee
Yeah, yeah I feel for me that is additionally so we at all times have folks saying like ought to I cost by the hour by the venture and what that excludes is the choice of charging by the worth that you just present so take into account for a minute that is your shopper proper? and so they have a.
07:13.51
Clay
The.
07:13.52
Preston Lee
Some kind of Search engine optimization Job so let’s let’s take into account only for only for illustration. Probably the most excessive situation. Okay, so let’s say this Search engine optimization job is out of the blue all of their articles on their web site that they use to generate new enterprise for his or her firm. All of their articles dropped to the second web page of Google which nobody ever goes to proper? Let’s say that’s the issue. so so penny goo is is employed now to resolve that downside. How a lot is that downside being solved price to this firm even when she expenses 100 and fifty {dollars} an hour
07:36.46
Clay
Ah, her.
07:46.54
Clay
Um, first.
07:50.35
Preston Lee
If she will clear up that downside in 10 hours that’s solely $1500 relying on the corporate like this downside being solved is price far more than that you understand what I imply and so it’s a must to generally step again and never even say by the venture or by the hour you additionally it’s a must to say like what is that this really price. It’s that entire thought of the ship transferring.
07:57.50
Clay
Yeah, yep.
08:09.76
Preston Lee
What’s it price to get this ship transferring once more. No matter what it takes proper.
08:16.20
Clay
Yeah I feel it’s a mindframe factor proper? It’s just like the folks that the shoppers who have a look at prices. Um primarily based off length. How lengthy it’s going to take I feel these folks.
08:34.55
Clay
Typically talking I feel these folks in all probability have a tough time like with progress enterprise progress. Properly, it’s a distinction it’s. It’s a distinction in thoughts body. So like if I have been to ask if any individual if any individual have been speaking to me about let’s simply on this instance, Search engine optimization providers and so they have a.
08:39.35
Preston Lee
Yeah, why do you say that.
08:52.86
Clay
Let’s simply say they they’re on the second web page they have to be on the primary web page. What does that work to them proper? So if I have been speaking to these folks I I wouldn’t ask them. Um, how what? what am I attempting to say I wouldn’t ask them what number of hours are you prepared to pay.
09:13.95
Clay
That’s a a lot completely different situation versus hey should you might write a examine proper now and this downside could possibly be solved tomorrow. What’s that price to you? What does that work to what you are promoting and your backside line That’s a a lot completely different query as a result of like.
09:25.35
Preston Lee
Um, yeah, yeah.
09:31.88
Clay
And now takes the time equation out. Um, after which now you possibly can principally write your individual examine for my part.
09:37.82
Preston Lee
Yeah, and and that turns into like a clumsy query to ask proper? It’s a must to determine ask that query however perhaps in a by not asking that particular query as a result of you understand it’s kind of prefer it’s kind of like once you go to.
09:45.60
Clay
Yeah, yeah.
09:54.21
Preston Lee
Purchase furnishings or a automobile or one thing and so they’re like nicely what’s your price range. You don’t need to inform them your price range as a result of then they simply discover proper as much as your price range proper.
10:01.22
Clay
Yeah I feel the best way I feel the best way you’d ask this although is like you may say hey how a lot do you rev how a lot should you needed to guess how a lot of your income comes from Google proper? And let’s simply say oh nicely we do one million {dollars} in income a yr. Ah.
10:09.29
Preston Lee
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:19.23
Clay
300000 of his instantly from Google after which at that time you possibly can yeah.
10:19.54
Preston Lee
Precisely and and also you ask these questions like amid plenty of different questions you’re asking to be taught extra about their enterprise. So it’s like oh inform me about what you are promoting. Oh nice, inform me about the way you get prospects inform me about um, inform me about why this can be a downside and so they’re like nicely we normally get you understand this a lot enterprise from Google and.
10:33.38
Clay
Um.
10:38.33
Preston Lee
And now as a result of we’ve dropped web page two. We’re not getting that and it equates to yeah $300000 a yr or one thing and and then you definitely’re you’re tapping into that as a freelancer going. Oh this can be a $300000 downside for them to cost them $10000 for this if I can ship on it’s nothing proper.
10:45.19
Clay
Yeah, yep.
10:53.66
Clay
Nothing yeah, and it’s your it’s your job to love that is simply good outdated gross sales coaching too proper? I’ve I’ve had tons of gross sales coaching and that is what you’re tapping into is the feelings and so I feel you possibly can even go even additional and be and you may ask the particular person. Okay.
10:56.64
Preston Lee
Um, um.
11:12.20
Clay
Properly, this can be a $300000 downside proper? and you may say it in several phrases I’d say it instantly like that if I have been you? um however I I’d say okay this can be a $300000 downside doubtlessly um what wouldn’t it what would occur should you if what you are promoting was decreased by $300000 a yr.
11:30.14
Preston Lee
Yeah, yeah.
11:31.88
Clay
Like what would what would occur after which they’ll go in issues like nicely you understand we’d have to put off a complete bunch of workers or might need to close our enterprise down however blah. However now you’re moving into feelings after which at that time you possibly can cost a very excessive ticket.
11:38.66
Preston Lee
Hyperlink. Yeah.
11:49.55
Preston Lee
And you understand to listeners they could really feel like that is manipulative or or like sleazy gross sales Ways I I’d disagree. Um I feel it’s understanding your worth when folks say like perceive your worth and cost what you’re price That is what persons are speaking about proper? the place it’s like.
12:03.40
Clay
Yeah.
12:07.36
Preston Lee
If should you can really clear up a $300000 downside for somebody for $10000 you’re you’re offering a implausible service proper? nowhere else in in a enterprise. Are you able to spend 10 grand and make 300 you simply it’s unparalleled proper? and so.
12:19.69
Clay
Yeah.
12:24.40
Preston Lee
Um, I yeah I feel it’s simply essential to grasp the place you fall in that chain of significantly income new prospects and that is tremendous straightforward for folks in in advertising areas like web optimization generally it may be just a little harder like if I’m a graphic designer and a shopper needs to rent me for like each day social media posts after which it’s after which. You understand it’s like nicely how a lot are these price to you and so they’re like nicely it’s price $25 a graphic and also you’re like nicely no, no what I imply is true? and it sort of sort of is more durable to to justify generally however that’s your job as a freelancer as a salesman as a marketer is to get to the purpose the place you possibly can say this factor that I’m providing you is price $5000 ten thousand {dollars}. You understand $500 a month. No matter you resolve? um and and it’s a must to I feel be daring and and brave in that method to to have the ability to give pricing like that.
13:07.10
Clay
Yeah.
13:14.30
Clay
I feel it’s I feel it’s fairly ironic as a result of I feel to your level the place some folks may assume it’s sleazy I additionally disagree with that. Um I’m with you. Um, it’s you understand the shopper that’s prepared to pay $10000 for to repair a $300000 downside they don’t assume it’s sleazy.
13:29.90
Preston Lee
That’s proper, They’re thrilled. Yeah.
13:29.95
Clay
They’re blissful to jot down that examine now the folks the folks that do assume it’s sleazy um are normally folks in your career similar career that may do the identical factor who cost a fraction of the value and so they’re simply pissed that they didn’t get the job.
13:47.22
Preston Lee
M.
13:49.54
Clay
And my opinion and into wish to be actual I like after I was doing web sites. Dude I used to be charging twelve Fifteen ok a web site which for only a fairly customary brochure sort web site proper? like they appear good. They operate actually? nicely. You can go discover a freelancer on the market that may do the identical factor for a thousand and even much less and construct the very same web site. The distinction is is that I’ve a model title and I’ve a belief issue and I’m actually good at gross sales and other people worth that.
14:12.83
Preston Lee
Um.
14:22.26
Preston Lee
Yeah, yeah, for positive I feel it’s I feel it’s about figuring out what folks worth proper? Um, matter the way you spin it. That’s why it’s known as value-based pricing and it’s the toughest sort of pricing to get began with. However as soon as you work that out it.
14:31.13
Clay
Ah, her her.
14:34.92
Clay
Yeah, yeah.
14:39.69
Preston Lee
Actually can change what you are promoting and and um and it may well allow you to have a look at pricing in a complete new method and and also you’re proper like this concept of like a sleazy salesperson. Um, largely that sentiment comes from these of us on the gross sales aspect and people of us who’re internet designers riders. Graphic designers illustrators first proper? after which we understand as a freelancer we now have to exit and do gross sales and we’re like oh gross sales is so like slimy. No, should you’re including worth to folks then you definitely’re including worth and sure that prices cash so as to add worth to folks’s companies. However.
15:05.80
Clay
Yeah, and.
15:12.97
Clay
Her her.
15:17.26
Preston Lee
That’s going to be okay and other people count on that every one proper one other one other one for the books hopefully penny goo pennygoo penny goo hopefully that was useful Clay Mosley from gettripify.com I’ve been Preston Lee from millo.co and this has been a q and a episode.
15:22.16
Clay
Cool.
15:35.86
Preston Lee
Ah, freelance to founder. Thanks for listening guys see ya.
15:38.18
Clay
See ah.