Preston (00:02.979)
Whats up and welcome again to a different episode of Freelance to Founder. It is a particular Q&A episode the place we take questions from listeners similar to you and do our greatest to reply them as shortly as we will for you, hopefully get you again on the street along with your freelance enterprise. I’m Preston Lee from Millo.co and becoming a member of me on the air as all the time is my buddy Clay Mosley from GetDripify.com. Hey Clay.
Clay (00:24.694)
How’s it going, man? It is a particular episode as a result of we’re most likely going to rant a bit, proper?
Preston (00:29.663)
We’re going to rant a bit. Sure, sir. We’re going to speak about, effectively, I received’t, I received’t spoil it proper up. Let’s catch up somewhat bit first. How are issues stepping into your world?
Clay (00:39.794)
Uh, it’s good, man. You realize, my Georgia, my toddler’s working quicker than I’m, so I’m having to cope with that.
Preston (00:46.471)
Yeah, been there. And so they don’t cease. They don’t decelerate. At the least not but. Yeah, mine haven’t slowed down but. So, effectively, let’s speak about, I can’t make small speak anymore. We received to only dive in as a result of we had been speaking about this earlier than we report. And I’ve been trying ahead to this for a number of days. And that is actually, we sometimes reply questions from…
Clay (00:49.692)
I don’t cease. Nope.
Clay (01:00.654)
Ha ha
Clay (01:03.802)
Okay, let’s go.
Preston (01:14.771)
listeners, proper? If you wish to ask us a query, you may write in at freelance2founder.com ask. There’s a fast type there. You simply sort your reply in. You’ve heard us reply questions from listeners. Right now, Clay, I’ve a query for you truly, and that’s I’ve seen across the freelance group, the company group, these communities I hand around in, I’ve seen, it appears like everybody speaking about this product known as…
excessive degree. It’s like gohighlevel.com or one thing like that. It appears like everybody’s speaking about it. The search, you already know, I do loads of search engine optimization analysis for our personal weblog. The search visitors is big. It’s similar to skyrocketing. Everybody’s speaking about it. Everybody’s questioning about it, proper? So, so the opposite day I truly began a weblog put up on the, we had been going to publish on Millo and I signed up for…
Clay (01:45.496)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (02:06.467)
excessive degree in order that I might get a really feel for what it’s, what it seems to be like, perhaps give my suggestion. Like must you use this if you happen to’re constructing an company? I used to be like that is excellent for freelance to founder as a result of everybody listening is on this mode of like what instruments do I take advantage of to develop my enterprise and the way do I scale my enterprise, and so on. So I’m considering like that is going to be nice. I’m going to enroll. I’m going to check out it. I’m midway by way of that article and I take a break and I get on Fb and I see Clay
Clay (02:24.641)
Yeah.
Preston (02:34.415)
form of this mini rant about excessive degree, about you tried it and also you didn’t like it.
Clay (02:41.094)
No, I didn’t like it. That may be a very a lot understated. And after I say I attempted it, it’s not like I attempted a free trial and hated it. I went all in on it.
Preston (02:42.727)
In reality, I imply, that’s an understatement, proper?
Preston (02:54.987)
Yeah, okay, so inform me, yeah, let’s undergo this course of. So I wanna hear earlier than you signed up what you had heard about it, after which let’s speak about your course of, signing up, getting began, migrating over, since you did go all in, it feels like. I used to be form of simply utilizing it as a approach to get a really feel for it. I didn’t transfer my entire enterprise onto it. After which now have you ever moved away from it?
Clay (03:18.486)
Oh, I’ve utterly moved away, yeah. So I first heard of it, when was it, three years in the past? Excessive degree’s not that previous. I don’t know precisely when it got here out. Perhaps we will do a fast Google search. However I believe it’s solely like a handful of years. You realize?
Preston (03:19.808)
Yeah.
Preston (03:29.075)
No it’s not.
Preston (03:39.987)
Yeah, I imply, I’ve been on this house a very long time, proper? And I hadn’t heard of it. I’m doing a fast Google search. It seems to be like, 2018, April 2018. So we’re recording October, 2023. So 5 years or so. However you already know, the primary couple of years of a SaaS, it’s like nobody hears of you in any respect. However yeah.
Clay (03:45.843)
Yeah.
Clay (03:55.723)
Yeah, yeah.
Clay (03:59.378)
Proper. Yeah, so I first got here throughout it, man, in the event that they got here out in 2018, I got here throughout it after they had been tremendous, tremendous younger. I believe I got here throughout it finish of 2019, starting of 2020. And I got here throughout it as a result of one among my shoppers was utilizing it from, as a result of they had been working with one other company who was utilizing it. And so they made my shopper get on it. And…
Preston (04:27.009)
Hmm, okay.
Clay (04:29.534)
I noticed it. I didn’t prefer it then. And what I didn’t like was the interface. I hated the interface. It’s yeah, it’s fairly primary, which there’s a distinction between primary and like easy. I assumed it was ugly. I assumed it was ugly, man. Now bear in mind, like everybody has their desire, proper? Individuals who I do know individuals who use excessive love who like it, who like it all collectively.
Preston (04:34.095)
Ha ha.
Preston (04:38.351)
fairly primary.
Preston (04:45.593)
100% yeah.
Clay (05:00.13)
And so they additionally love the interface. So, however I’m simply speaking about for me, I simply didn’t prefer it. In order that’s after I first got here throughout it, I didn’t use it. I truly instructed my shopper to get on one thing else, proper? As a result of I refused to make use of excessive degree at that time. After which…
Preston (05:04.906)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (05:19.403)
And I really feel like perhaps at this level, what we must always have finished perhaps somewhat bit higher is simply inform individuals shortly what it’s. So excessive degree is from what I’ve seen, mainly like they actually give attention to the CRM side of it, but it surely’s form of like a enterprise administration productiveness challenge administration instrument, proper? Yeah, they’re form of making an attempt to be, I imply, there’s instruments on the market which are form of like this. You concentrate on just like the HubSpots, Moxie,
Clay (05:21.728)
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Clay (05:36.482)
They’re making an attempt to be all the pieces.
Preston (05:47.259)
Even instruments that started off as simply invoicing instruments like FreshBooks or one thing like that, they’ve grow to be these challenge administration, you consider like monday.com or ClickUp is form of stepping into that house somewhat bit extra, however they began extra on the challenge administration aspect. Principally, they wish to be this one place that you just go to deal with all of the items of your online business, from advertising and marketing to administration, CRM, clients, shoppers, all of that stuff multi functional place.
Clay (06:03.438)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (06:14.518)
Yeah, yeah, it’s a, I don’t know what individuals name it. I name it like only a full automation software program, proper? Advertising automation software program, however, and there’s a number of, there’s a number of opponents on the market that do very related issues, however yeah, that’s after I first got here throughout it, after which I assumed nothing of it for a pair years after that. After which I really feel prefer it like blew up in, I assume from their perspective in a great way.
Preston (06:22.335)
Yeah, okay, yeah.
Preston (06:29.623)
for.
Clay (06:43.582)
the place I simply noticed, I simply began seeing it all over the place. Like during the last 12 months. And that is the place I made my mistake. I used to be with Keap on the time, previously Infusionsoft, however now Keap. My mistake was, Keap was working for me.
Preston (06:57.815)
Okay. Yep.
Clay (07:07.87)
and I fell for the shiny object syndrome. However okay, so right here’s what I imply although, like after I mentioned I went all in, I didn’t simply go like and buy the software program. I bought the company degree, which is thrice greater than the conventional account if I had been to only get it for myself. However along with that, I migrated all my stuff over to it.
Preston (07:11.821)
Yeah, yeah
Preston (07:24.612)
Hmm
Preston (07:30.611)
Yeah.
Preston (07:36.547)
So if you promote your stuff, what needed to be migrated? You’re speaking shopper contact data.
Clay (07:37.191)
and uh… oh
all the pieces. So I imply like I’ve over 20,000 emails on my listing however not simply that each one of my shopper notes from teaching shoppers I had I needed to manually scrape these and put them into excessive degree not simply that I needed to create I needed to go and totally combine with my billing system so I take advantage of Stripe for that. I needed to go and create all of the merchandise inside a excessive degree I needed to go and create
Preston (07:43.819)
What else? Yeah.
Preston (07:54.301)
Oh wow.
Whoa.
Preston (08:10.251)
Oh wow.
Clay (08:11.934)
all of the workflow automations that I had from maintain to excessive degree. I needed to go and create all of the funnels and touchdown and opt-in pages in excessive degree.
Preston (08:22.136)
How lengthy did this take you?
Clay (08:25.218)
Uh, it most likely took me a whole week working full days to do it.
Preston (08:28.787)
Yeah. Yeah, it’s loads of work.
Clay (08:32.906)
Yeah, most likely a very good 30, 40 hours to love migrate it. However right here’s the factor. So an extra step to this, all of that, simply migration was simply by itself a beast. I made a decision as a result of you already know this, such as you’re a salesman, I’m a salesman, I noticed alternative on this. So with excessive degree, you will have the power to have sub accounts.
Preston (08:58.852)
Hmm.
Clay (09:00.746)
So meaning like you may create an account beneath your account. So if like as an company degree account, you may think about it as like a grasp account. After which you will have all these like sub accounts beneath the grasp. And you may create limitless of these on an company degree. And so I assumed in my head, I’m going to offer, I’m going to resell.
this proper that is that is how excessive degree yep that is how excessive degree arrange you may resell excessive degree you are able to do it a pair other ways you may resell it like form of a sass white label it proper that’s what i did um i imply i instructed individuals it was excessive degree but it surely had my brand on it um so i charged for that
Preston (09:31.371)
Acquired it. Prefer to your shoppers.
Preston (09:47.055)
Okay, fascinating. So because of this although in your Fb put up you had been like, that is actually simply an MLM. And for individuals not acquainted, a multi-level advertising and marketing firm is like mainly you solely generate income if you happen to refer a bunch of individuals and I imply you’ve heard of those, like they’re the gosh, what’s the clothes one which’s been so common recently like
Clay (09:54.466)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (10:15.512)
All of the, no, it’s not Lula, it’s Lula Gown, which went beneath, which went beneath. The documentaries are very fascinating.
Preston (10:17.919)
LuLaRoe, LuLaRoe. Yeah, they did. They did exit of enterprise. I had a buddy who labored there and, however, oh, I haven’t seen them, however yeah, however there’s all these MLM corporations the place it’s like, they signal beneath you, you get a part of the income they pay and also you construct up your community and it’s a complete factor. It’s a pyramid, yeah.
Clay (10:28.77)
Yeah.
Clay (10:35.762)
Yeah, it’s somewhat pyramid. Now they do have an choice the place you will be an affiliate, which for my part is completely different, as a result of if somebody indicators up as an affiliate, sure, you get a fee of what they pay, but it surely’s their very own account. They’re not beneath you. You simply get credit, like only a referral price, proper? You do have that choice.
Preston (10:44.498)
Yeah, 100%.
Preston (10:53.173)
Yeah.
Clay (10:59.158)
however I went the choice of sub account as a result of I assumed, oh, cash, proper? Like I’m going to get extra money if I can resell this. So like I used to be promoting, like you may promote like, if you happen to had been to only go to gohighlevel.com, somebody might simply pay $97 a month for an account. Base value, we will get into that later. So I assumed, hmm, I’m going to promote this for 79 a month if you happen to do it beneath me. In order that’s what I did. Along with that,
Preston (11:02.326)
Yeah.
Preston (11:15.69)
Okay.
Clay (11:29.41)
There’s a very, actually excessive studying curve to excessive degree. I mentioned, I’m additionally going to cost an extra $99 for prime degree teaching. In order that was a separate product. So I used to be making some cash.
Preston (11:39.352)
Hmm
Preston (11:45.407)
Yeah, like did you will have, you bought so far as to have shoppers go for this and it was a, it was a factor you had been, yeah.
Clay (11:49.13)
Sure. I didn’t get that far. I used to be making a pair thousand a month. Which is an effective chunk of change. Don’t get me unsuitable.
Preston (11:54.581)
Okay, okay.
Preston (11:58.386)
Yeah, completely. What number of shoppers did you will have on this system that you just had been constructing?
Clay (12:03.971)
Uhhh… I had 15 or so? Yeah. 15 or so. I solely did this for like a month.
Preston (12:06.797)
Yeah.
Preston (12:12.639)
Yeah, no, I’m simply, I’m form of like, I’m form of like foreshadowing, proper? I’m making an attempt to construct up all the pieces that you just did when listeners know already from the highest of the present that all of it got here crumbling down.
Clay (12:19.734)
Yeah.
Clay (12:23.018)
Oh yeah, so I forgot to, I skipped out. So it took me about 40 hours emigrate, but it surely additionally took me an extra, most likely 50 to 60 hours to grasp it. As a result of I wished to promote the excessive degree teaching, so I needed to grasp it. So I put in altogether triple digits in hours. So I simply, yeah, simply giving context
Preston (12:35.775)
I’m positive. Yeah.
Preston (12:46.67)
Yeah.
Clay (12:53.346)
time, cash, effort, and in addition alternative. Like I used to be making a pair thousand {dollars} simply after a month of launching. That’s lots to love give as much as simply reverse again. Proper?
Preston (13:10.935)
Yeah, so let’s get into that somewhat bit extra. So your expertise, was it okay at first? I imply, it should’ve been ok at first since you began signing on shoppers, you weren’t instantly disgusted by it, proper? Or did you see early warning indicators and also you form of perhaps ignored them? Yeah.
Clay (13:23.573)
Ah, yeah.
That one. I noticed there, effectively, okay, so I didn’t ignore them. I noticed some early indicators in the truth that they, just like the software program’s tremendous buggy. It’s, yeah, it’s buggy, man. It’s like, but it surely wasn’t sufficient for me to be like, okay, I’m switching, proper? It was similar to little tiny quirks.
Preston (13:40.291)
Hmm, I used to be noticing that. Even simply, I simply did a fast onboarding.
Clay (13:56.798)
You realize, it didn’t actually mess issues up completely.
Preston (13:58.549)
Yeah.
Properly, and the place you knew they had been pretty younger, you already know, we’ve somewhat extra endurance with youthful tech corporations. It’s like, ah, determine it out.
Clay (14:05.756)
Yeah.
Yeah, it was extra on that degree, proper? However along with that, like stacking on prime, I assumed the software program is ugly, proper? For me personally, I do know lots of people are like this. I take advantage of software program extra usually whether it is fairly.
Preston (14:11.052)
Yeah.
Preston (14:17.399)
hehe
Clay (14:29.266)
I’m not even joking. Like, if it’s prettier, I’ll use it extra usually. You realize what I imply? Like if it’s ugly, I’m not going to make use of it. I imply, that is with the belief it’s purposeful. So on prime of that, so buggy, it was, it was, it’s ugly for my part. Additionally they’ve issues, and context, that is what I do every single day. I’ve handled all varieties of software program. I imply like ActiveCampaign, Preserve.
Preston (14:35.566)
Completely, completely.
Clay (15:00.054)
ConvertKit, MailChimp, I imply you identify it, I’ve labored with it. Both on a private degree or from a shopper degree. So on condition that context, excessive degree has some sure options in sure locations. I’m like why did they put that there? It makes zero sense why they’d put this proper right here. You realize what I imply? Prefer it’s simply… However once more, yeah.
Preston (15:04.886)
Hmm.
Preston (15:24.819)
Yeah, it feels like they simply had loads of UX points. Their UX design was off, their basic UX, like the place they determined to position issues and arrange issues was off.
Clay (15:35.85)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it’s however once more at this level, you already know, it’s It nonetheless wasn’t sufficient for me to be like, you already know, like I overlook it. I’m simply gonna change away It was you already know, it’s simply quirky, you already know, sure, they’re younger firm. I can I can I’ve somewhat bit extra endurance for it So as to add to the quirkiness I similar to one other annoyance however once more not sufficient for me to
migrate again was they included some issues. I really feel like excessive ranges making an attempt to be all the pieces, however they’re making an attempt to pressure it. So for instance, you may re if you happen to in case you are I don’t know the way this I don’t know the way it’s on a person account degree. I had an company degree, which by the way in which context excessive ranges designed for businesses.
Preston (16:30.223)
That’s good to know too as we’ve listeners who’re nonetheless within the freelance stage and are perhaps contemplating all of them after our dialog. You most likely received’t be contemplating excessive degree anymore, however that’s good to know. Why do you say that? What makes it designed for businesses extra so than for solo companies?
Clay (16:45.302)
Oh, for one, they are saying this. I truly talked to one of many founders at a convention. That is earlier than the entire, my entire factor went down. And he mentioned, we constructed this particularly just for businesses, not the tip consumer. And after I say finish consumer, not the small enterprise proprietor. So the difficulty is, I believe one of many issues that prime ranges have in…
Preston (16:49.679)
Acquired it, okay.
Preston (16:57.075)
All proper. Yep.
Preston (17:08.823)
Yeah.
Clay (17:13.622)
quote unquote bother with is that they’re not staying within the lane that it’s designed to be in. They’re gladly accepting cash from small enterprise house owners understanding that they designed the software program for businesses.
Preston (17:18.583)
Hmm
Preston (17:27.119)
Attention-grabbing. They’re making an attempt to, yeah, they’re making an attempt to form of retrofit it into an viewers that’s prepared to pay, which there’s nothing unsuitable with that if you happen to then modify the product to suit the brand new viewers, proper? But it surely feels like perhaps that’s not working very effectively.
Clay (17:28.511)
Yeah.
Clay (17:41.831)
Yeah, the issue is that businesses, they know the right way to work with software program, proper? One of these software program. If some chiropractor or somebody like a small enterprise proprietor or medical skilled and even somebody who doesn’t cope with this software program who’s in our business, perhaps like an internet designer, or you already know what I imply?
Preston (18:04.647)
Yeah. Uh-huh.
Clay (18:08.326)
who hasn’t been on the company degree, which is loads of our viewers right here, the training curve is tremendous excessive. It was even tremendous excessive for me. I imply, it took me 50, 60 hours to grasp this factor. Whereas I can hop into ActiveCampaign or KEEP or no matter and like I do know the software program fairly effectively after like 5 to 10 hours, you already know. However anyhow, again to my level on they’re making an attempt to pressure
Preston (18:30.957)
Yeah.
Clay (18:37.462)
being all the pieces. On the company degree, you may, you may, there’s a characteristic in there the place you may resell WordPress internet hosting.
Preston (18:38.423)
Hmm.
Preston (18:46.285)
That appears very area of interest, proper?
Clay (18:49.042)
Yeah, and you’ll resell Yext. Y-E-X-T. I believe it’s like a… No, it’s… I don’t wish to quote unsuitable. I believe it’s like a… A list, you already know, you will get your listing, your listing listings and sure, you will get all these like as much as par. You realize, it’s form of like Moz.
Preston (18:53.359)
I don’t even know what that’s. Like an SMS service.
Preston (19:08.323)
Just like the telephone book? Okay.
Preston (19:17.948)
Ah yeah yeah, okay. I see what you’re saying, yep.
Clay (19:19.858)
Yeah, however you may, there’s a characteristic contained in the software program that claims, hey, you wish to be a Yext reseller?
Preston (19:27.075)
as a result of they most likely have accounts there they usually’re mainly doing what, it feels like they simply actually love this MLM mannequin. They’re not solely individuals in different MLM fashions or affiliate fashions, however they’re additionally, yeah, it feels form of everywhere. And I didn’t get into it deep sufficient to expertise all these tiny little issues, however what actually received me about it was simply, once more, I’m gonna use that phrase easy, and never in a great way, as a result of there’s easy software program that’s tremendous highly effective.
Clay (19:41.739)
Yeah.
Preston (19:55.679)
and it’s like, wow, that is gonna take a lot off my plate. After which there’s easy software program the place it’s like, wow, that is gonna take me endlessly to study and I’m nonetheless undecided it’s gonna do what I really need it to do and there’s gonna be all these options that I’m gonna have to take a look at however I most likely don’t want and that’s extra how I felt after I was taking a look at HiLabs.
Clay (19:59.287)
Uh-huh.
Clay (20:14.41)
Yeah, I can see that. I imply, it’s humorous as a result of I believe aesthetically, it seems to be tremendous primary. However fairly actually, the performance and the training curve and all of the options it has is tremendous advanced.
Preston (20:27.375)
That’s so fascinating, proper? That it might be so reversed that manner.
Clay (20:29.442)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and I believe the explanation it seems to be, the explanation why I believe so is as a result of loads of it’s the UX. Like for instance, if you go and construct, like they’ve a funnel builder.
Preston (20:37.043)
Yeah.
Preston (20:43.093)
Mm, okay.
Clay (20:45.074)
Properly, they’ve three completely different settings, like settings areas if you’re making a funnel, a minimum of on the time that we’re recording this. There’s the general funnel settings, the settings for every web page within the funnel, after which you will have the product settings. Properly, it might make loads of sense.
for my part, from a UX perspective, that each one of those are, a minimum of the buttons the place you’ll discover these settings, can be all in the identical location on the webpage, proper?
Clay (21:28.434)
They’ve the situation for the hyperlinks to all three of those settings throughout all the way in which throughout the webpage from one another. One’s all the way in which over to the precise, one’s all the way in which over to the left, one’s in the direction of the underside.
Preston (21:36.14)
Bizarre.
Clay (21:44.266)
And it took me endlessly to determine that out.
Preston (21:46.127)
So it feels like there’s all these little issues which are beginning to add up. Just like the UX is simply okay for you, you don’t just like the look of it, it’s disorganized, it’s, there’s like bizarre issues that really feel like they shouldn’t essentially be included, it simply feels very disjointed. So all of this begins including up, and at what level does it form of change for you the place you’re like, oh man, I’ve signed on 15 shoppers, I’ve migrated all these items over, like.
Clay (21:54.934)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (22:08.849)
Oh.
Preston (22:14.undefined)
What was the tipping level the place it was dangerous sufficient that it was like, nope, I’m finished?
Clay (22:20.926)
Okay, so I constructed out my automations precisely how I had, there was two issues truly, two issues. I constructed out all of my automation workflows precisely like I had them in Preserve, and I quadruple checked all the pieces, proper? I even examined it a number of occasions.
Preston (22:23.404)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (22:44.813)
And if you say workflows, is that this like, as soon as a, yeah, stroll me by way of like what a workflow would appear like.
Clay (22:50.954)
Yeah, so like right here a very easy one is when somebody downloads a lead magnet, what occurs after that? So in an automatic manner, they get an e-mail drip sequence, proper? They’re tagged in a sure manner. Yeah. And, and I’ll offer you somewhat bit extra context as a result of that is the place the error occurred. There’s a call diamond. So I’ve like 5 lead magnets on my web site. I’ve a workflow automation.
Preston (22:57.305)
Acquired it.
Preston (23:01.775)
They’re tagged in a sure manner in your CRM. Yeah, okay.
Preston (23:16.9)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (23:20.822)
that checks to see what tag was utilized, in order that manner the consumer is aware of, or sorry, the software program is aware of which lead magnet was downloaded, so it takes them down that path. So it tells them, consumer A downloaded lead magnet A, so due to this fact they’re gonna get the e-mail drip A, proper? Or in the event that they downloaded B,
Preston (23:32.065)
Proper.
Clay (23:50.918)
e-mail drip B. So it checks for whichever tag was utilized. That’s a really, like within the automation world, that’s a quite simple automation. Yeah. Yeah, it’s tremendous frequent. And I, you already know, with this being a brand new software program, I simply newly migrated, I’m continually checking my automations to guarantee that.
Preston (23:51.63)
Proper, yeah.
Preston (23:58.967)
Very primary, yeah, and quite common.
Clay (24:18.018)
Did the emails get despatched to the precise individual on the proper time, you already know, down the precise path? I shortly realized there was one morning the place 171 individuals received despatched an e-mail, all at 7 a.m. precisely, who shouldn’t have gotten that e-mail. 171 individuals.
Preston (24:44.687)
And what had occurred? They combined up which workflow they had been alleged to be in?
Clay (24:50.182)
Sure, in order that’s what occurred technically. So I assumed, hmm, perhaps I tousled, proper? So I went in, I checked, and I used to be like, I don’t suppose I did.
Preston (24:57.837)
Yeah.
Clay (25:05.846)
However let me delete this module and remake it, proper? So I assumed, okay, absolutely this fastened the issue. I checked again, I made the error of not checking till like three days later. Seems one other 171 individuals at 7 a.m. for the following three days, completely different, a special set of 171 individuals every single day.
received despatched the identical precise e-mail who weren’t alleged to be getting despatched. And I used to be like, no f-ing manner. And so I double checked, I triple checked, I received on assist, proper? So Excessive Degree has like a assist line the place they’ve like individuals who you will get on Zoom with, which that is the factor I can say constructive about Excessive Degree, is that you may get on a Zoom at any time 24-7. There may be some wait, however you may go and workshop one thing, proper?
Preston (25:42.707)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Preston (25:50.781)
Uh-huh.
Preston (26:05.571)
This truly is a very fascinating level as a result of I, in order I used to be preparing for this episode, I used to be trying up, you already know, on TrustPilot, excessive degree has a web page clearly, they usually have, let’s see, I’m gonna look actual fast, 1100, over 1100 opinions, they usually’ve received 4.9 stars. And so I’m like sitting down able to have this dialog with you the place you’re actually disenchanted in it, proper? And but nearly all of individuals tremendous like it. And so I’m studying by way of a number of the opinions simply on the primary web page.
Clay (26:27.476)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (26:34.847)
And what’s actually, actually fascinating is everyone seems to be raving in regards to the assist. So like most likely what occurs is after you will have a assist expertise with them, they most likely ask for a overview after which it pushes to Trustpilot. So like, sure, their assist is admittedly good, however for my part, you already know, an organization that doesn’t have to have you ever speak to assist is mostly a higher firm than one which it’s important to get with assist after which the customer support is nice. So.
Clay (26:58.143)
Yep.
Preston (27:02.839)
But it surely’s tremendous fascinating, like if you happen to look on their entrance web page of TrustPilot, it’s like yeah, one, two, three, 4, I imply I’m undecided I discovered one on the entrance web page right here that wasn’t about buyer assist.
Clay (27:17.518)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I’ve a principle about that on why they’ve so many constructive opinions I’m gonna say all this perhaps I’m an anomaly. All proper, I don’t know. I Simply know I stay on this world. I Tried apply each advertising and marketing automation software program on the market that exists on some degree and You realize, I went all it I imply I went all in on it in order that’s my solely
Preston (27:31.863)
Yeah
Preston (27:44.681)
Yeah.
Clay (27:47.01)
background to this so I might be an anomaly I’m similar to anyhow to proceed my story I received on assist which was actually good it’s a form of truly form of hit or miss with the assist as a result of generally you get individuals who truly know what they’re speaking about some people who find themselves simply taking a look at a flowchart determination factor or similar to what did he say okay let me verify the flowchart and search for a solution however I went in and the primary individual mentioned effectively you already know this seems to be proper like
Preston (27:55.31)
Yeah.
Preston (28:02.696)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Clay (28:16.678)
it shouldn’t occur anymore. And the reply I received was, effectively, we had a server go down the previous few days. And that will have precipitated some glitches. So I used to be like, hmm, okay, I assume I can like, purchase that proper for now. At the least I’m hoping in my thoughts that that’s the case. Proper? So I mentioned, okay, you already know,
Properly, let’s simply see what occurs. Dude, no joke. The subsequent day, it occurred once more. 7am, 171 individuals.
Preston (28:50.883)
7 a.m. 171 individuals. That was the second. I can inform by the way in which you’re speaking about it. That was the second that you just’re like, yeah, I’m finished.
Clay (28:57.374)
Yeah. Properly, I received on assist once more. And so they instructed me the identical factor. Properly, it might have been a server subject. And I’m like, when did? Yeah, they don’t know. Yeah.
Preston (29:08.803)
In order that they don’t know, they don’t know, they’re like greedy for straws at an excuse, making an attempt to appease you briefly, however they do not know what occurred. Yeah.
Clay (29:17.41)
Mm-hmm. So I requested them, I mentioned, hey, when did the server go down? And so they go, oh, they thumbed round somewhat bit, they discovered the quote unquote reply. And I mentioned, then that’s not my subject as a result of this occurred exterior of these dates. It retains occurring each single day. I needed to go and manually shut down that exact automation to cease this. After which,
Preston (29:28.736)
Yeah.
Preston (29:32.355)
And it retains occurring. Yeah.
Clay (29:45.65)
That, yeah, that was what did it. I mentioned, screw this, I’m finished, I’m going again to what labored earlier than. I forgot to say that my open charges went down drastically.
Preston (29:59.503)
And okay, so I stay on this house too, proper? And that is so fascinating as a result of this occurred to me after I switched from MailChimp to ActiveCampaign. ActiveCampaign was not my favourite. I attempted to modify over for a number of options that I actually wished to check out and the options themselves ended up not being that nice. After which the general instrument, I simply didn’t like that a lot. A part of it’s simply what you get used to, proper? I’d been in MailChimp for 10 years. I simply knew the way it labored. However I additionally similar to their UX higher.
Clay (30:09.073)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (30:20.437)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (30:28.747)
Yeah.
Preston (30:28.939)
After which MailChimp ended up selecting up a few of these options that I wished anyway. However within the meantime, yeah, I switched to ActiveCampaign. I had the identical expertise as you, which was my very same e-mail listing, we warmed it up, very same content material, identical sender, all the pieces, and my open and click on by way of charges simply plummeted. And I reached out to them three or 4 occasions, and each time they form of gave me the run round such as you had been getting from this assist, which was like, effectively, it might be this or might be that or simply give it a while.
After a 12 months on there with no enchancment, I went again to MailChimp and the primary e-mail I despatched out once more, it was again as much as…and now we’ve even higher charges than we had earlier than. And once more, I get that like, yeah, we had been warming up that listing on MailChimp for eight years or one thing, so I get it. However it’s important to…I imply, you may’t say you’re an all-in-one instrument if you happen to can’t truly ship the tech that you just want to be able to get these excessive deliverabilities. You simply can’t.
Clay (31:10.249)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (31:17.097)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (31:26.962)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I imply my open charge went, I averaged with Keat earlier than, like 30-35% open charge. After which I went, as quickly as I went to excessive degree, it went to love, not.
Preston (31:35.041)
Yeah.
Preston (31:41.107)
Dude, yeah, you may’t, I imply that’ll kill your online business. You may’t be doing that.
Clay (31:42.514)
And oh yeah, after which it, after which as quickly as I change again to Keap, again up, again as much as 35, 40% now. You realize, and you already know, it’s, truly you already know what the actual set off level was? Out of all of this, out of all of this, none of this was the precise set off. Even with assist telling me, hey, it’s a server factor. I truly received on assist one final time.
Preston (31:52.189)
Yeah. Yep.
Clay (32:13.026)
to see if I can get any individual who is aware of what they’re speaking about. And so they did somewhat extra digging. After which they, there’s a spot in excessive degree the place you may take a look at like logs, proper? Like exercise logs, like what’s occurring, like if there’s any form of export or if a consumer did a sure factor or no matter. This specific individual instructed me that there was a…
Preston (32:28.624)
Okay, yeah.
Clay (32:42.338)
consumer after which some form of random strings, string of characters, proper? Like that’s what the, it’s simply me and my spouse which are customers on this account. However this individual instructed me there was one other consumer that was actually labeled consumer after which a complete string of characters and mentioned, yeah, it seems to be like that you’re manually sending these emails to all these 171 individuals at a time for like 5 days in a row.
Preston (32:48.156)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (33:10.755)
That consumer was?
Clay (33:13.598)
Yeah, they usually tried to inform me it was me who was manually doing it. And I’m like, I don’t know who this consumer is. It’s not me, it’s not my spouse. My spouse doesn’t even log in to excessive degree. I’m the one one which logs into excessive degree and there’s zero motive why I’d manually be including these individuals to an automation, which is why I’m right here complaining about it.
Preston (33:15.701)
No manner.
Preston (33:33.819)
Yeah, I see why that’s just like the scary level, proper? Since you’ve received a buyer’s non-public data, their contact data, it’s like, what are they really doing with this data? Is it protected, is it protected?
Clay (33:42.583)
Yeah.
Clay (33:48.39)
Yeah, and I got here to 2 conclusions. It’s gotta be one among them. One, my account received hacked for no matter. Or two, their software program is simply utterly not working accurately in any respect. Yeah, and I assumed, nope, I can not cope with this. I’ve received manner too many, I received 1000’s of contacts in right here who I can not have random emails and textual content messages going out.
Preston (33:54.753)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (34:01.527)
It sounds prefer it’s simply so buggy. Yeah.
Preston (34:15.839)
Yeah, yeah. You lose belief so quick with somebody, proper? They’re in that nurturing part. They simply signed up in your e-mail listing or simply downloaded a lead magnet and also you’re in that nurturing part. You may’t be messing up like that.
Clay (34:20.447)
Yep.
Clay (34:29.754)
Yep, so yeah, so I switched instantly. Instantly. I, I halted.
Preston (34:35.725)
So how lengthy from like if you determined you had been signing up till you determined you had been out?
Clay (34:43.054)
It’s most likely like 45 days. Yeah, it’s most likely 45 days.
Preston (34:44.715)
Wow.
Preston (34:49.367)
Dude, that’s painful. I imply…
Clay (34:49.802)
Yep, it solely, which is, right here’s what’s humorous about this. I had to return, I needed to, sadly I needed to go recreate a brand new Preserve account. However this simply goes to indicate you that how difficult excessive degree is. I went again, I needed to go and create a brand new Preserve account as a result of my previous one was gone.
Which that was a mistake on my half. Like I ought to have simply stored it simply in case, you already know? However like Preserve was costing me $600 a month, you already know? So I’m like, I’m not gonna simply maintain it round, you already know? Like…
Preston (35:23.263)
Yeah.
Preston (35:26.911)
Yeah, yep.
Preston (35:31.371)
You realize what, that’s truly one factor I liked about MailChimp is, so I went away from MailChimp, they’ve like a pause the place you mainly, they retailer all of your contacts however you may’t ship any emails. And so you may’t truly use the core performance, however they’ll retailer all the e-mail addresses, as a result of you already know, it doesn’t price them that a lot to retailer 100,000 e-mail addresses or one thing. And…
Clay (35:38.303)
A pause.
Clay (35:45.29)
Mmm.
Clay (35:51.49)
Yeah.
Clay (35:55.267)
Yeah.
Preston (35:57.183)
In order that was tremendous good as a result of then as quickly as I got here again from ActiveCampaign it was all there. I needed to migrate within the ones that had signed up whereas I used to be on ActiveCampaign, you already know, however all of the previous ones had been nonetheless there. All of their information was there. What that they had opened earlier than, what they appreciated, what workflows that they had gone down, and so on., and so on. Prefer it was all nonetheless there was very nice. To not brag, as a result of I’m sorry about your… Yeah, that’s too dangerous.
Clay (36:05.946)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (36:14.798)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you already know, I did make, I made that mistake, however you already know, I used to be considering $600, I can’t similar to pay $600 a month simply to, which I form of, I want I did although, fairly actually, it might have been, yep.
Preston (36:25.061)
No, completely.
Preston (36:29.035)
Properly yeah, in hindsight, it’s like I’d have paid an additional $1,200 or one thing, but it surely wouldn’t have been that large a deal.
Clay (36:33.982)
Yeah. Yeah, so anyhow, I needed to go recreate it, however what’s humorous is it solely took me two full days to recreate all the pieces in KEEP.
Preston (36:43.479)
Properly, a part of that’s, you already know, maintain very well at this level, proper? However yeah.
Clay (36:46.846)
It’s. A part of it’s. However an enormous a part of it’s, it’s manner simpler to make use of. Means simpler. So, anyhow, I received a principle on why individuals love excessive degree a lot. Why I get so many constructive opinions. The primary one is, I’m an anomaly. Perhaps I’m the one one who doesn’t like excessive degree. As a result of apparently proper now, I believe I’m the one one.
Preston (37:05.087)
Okay? Yeah, I wish to hear it.
Preston (37:10.795)
I imply, I’m…
Preston (37:14.531)
I’m positive you’re not the one one, however I truly respect that you just say that as a result of we might be unsuitable on this, proper? That is actually similar to one man’s expertise, but in addition you’re not only a random consumer. You’ve used instruments like this up to now, a wide range of instruments like this up to now. You’ve been doing this a very long time.
Clay (37:16.157)
For those who go Google the web.
Clay (37:22.158)
May very well be.
Clay (37:31.167)
Yep.
Clay (37:35.254)
Properly, right here’s how I do know I’m not the one one. As a result of after I made that put up in my Fb group, there have been a ton of feedback of people that had been on excessive degree and mentioned, thank God you mentioned this. Now I’ve a motive to maneuver away from it. They wanted the validation, you already know? So.
Preston (37:47.064)
Hmm.
Preston (37:51.011)
They wanted the validation.
Preston (37:56.139)
Properly, and I follow the concept that if there’s that many assist opinions, like if they’ve 1200 opinions they usually’re largely about their assist, think about how many individuals truly use their assist, which implies they’ve received loads of assist tickets coming by way of, which implies there’s loads of errors occurring and yeah.
Clay (38:01.957)
Uh-huh.
Clay (38:13.858)
tons. I believe, effectively I don’t suppose it’s simply the errors. I believe it’s the training curve, man. I believe individuals hop on to assist as a result of they simply need assistance simply to study the rattling factor.
Preston (38:20.186)
Ah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Preston (38:27.531)
Properly, you already know what, after I signed up, proper, they tried to, throughout my onboarding sequence, they tried to promote me on like a, you already know, an upsell on a we’ll migrate all of your stuff for you and we’ll present you the right way to use it and be sure to’re all arrange and able to go. And my perception is software program, for essentially the most half, like we’re out of these days. That’s like early 2000s time when like they name a company assembly and everybody has to take a seat by way of a boring 4 hour coaching on the right way to use the brand new software program.
Clay (38:40.235)
Yep.
Clay (38:46.059)
Yep.
Clay (38:55.475)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (38:55.644)
We, that is 2023 software program, you must be capable of use it intuitively. For those who can’t use it intuitively, it’s constructed unsuitable.
Clay (39:00.449)
Yep.
That’s due to early 2000s, that was across the tech bubble. It’s like expertise was simply now a factor. Or like on-line internet expertise.
Preston (39:06.099)
Yeah, yeah, precisely. Yeah, no, it’s… No, we’re manner too far for needing to have a complete coaching round a chunk of software program.
Clay (39:16.462)
Mm-hmm. In reality, like even if you happen to take a look at maintain it was once known as infusion mushy it This firm is like 20 years previous That’s after they began was early 2000s. And I keep in mind if you happen to signed up for infusion mushy again then you definately needed to pay an onboarding price for setup and all that stuff as a result of And I keep in mind this too as a result of individuals bitched about it however like once more, that was like early 2000s when
Preston (39:21.182)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (39:24.557)
Yeah.
Preston (39:34.811)
Yeah.
Clay (39:46.03)
internet, even like software program within the cloud, proper, aka the web, was a brand new factor, proper? Software program earlier than that, and even at the moment, was largely native. You needed to set up it domestically in your machine. After which on prime of that, this automation all-in-one software program was a brand new factor. So the market sophistication was immature.
Preston (40:00.427)
Yeah, in your machine. Yep.
Clay (40:14.262)
However now, 20 years later, it’s very mature. Folks know what it’s, individuals know the right way to use it. There’s tons of them on the market. And now, if you happen to join Preserve, there’s, I believe you will have that choice if you happen to similar to, if you would like it, however you may go and join a Preserve account and you’ll go proper into utilizing it.
Preston (40:30.827)
Yeah, I imply don’t get me unsuitable, I’m all for like assist paperwork and you already know when you have a query. However you already know, I did this after I labored company jobs. It was like we’d get a brand new, some genius would determine it was a good suggestion for us to modify our software program to one thing else after which 25 of us would all have to take a seat in a room whereas they defined the right way to use it earlier than they’d ever even allow us to go browsing. And I’m similar to, to start with, if it’s that difficult, it’s essential work in your, how the app works and your UX and your usability of it.
Clay (40:35.147)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (41:00.787)
Second of all, I’m not gonna keep in mind all the pieces you cowl on this 4 hour coaching, proper? Your software program must be usable with out me having to take intensive notes and I don’t know. So yeah, I’m with you. There’s definitely a spot for a few of that, however I believe an increasing number of software program must be intuitive. And if it’s not, it’s out.
Clay (41:05.059)
haha
Yeah.
Clay (41:11.649)
Yep.
Clay (41:19.166)
Yeah. Yeah, so there’s truly 5 whole causes of my principle. We’ve already, yeah. I’m making notes. So we’ve lined two of them. That’s one, we’re an anomaly. Perhaps we’re unsuitable. Quantity two is the assist, proper? The assist dialogue. Quantity three, I believe we, yeah, we form of talked about is the training curve is so excessive,
Preston (41:25.214)
The longer we speak, you retain racking up extra.
Preston (41:45.059)
Yeah.
Clay (41:49.282)
individuals get on the assist, I assume it’s lumped into that assist choice. Alright, so the fourth and the fifth one are the principle ones I believe. And that is additionally what sort of pissed me off about Excessive Degree is if you happen to take a look at that software program in comparison with all the opposite opponents out there, they’re about half the worth. Half if not much less. So after I say half, for context, I used to be on the company degree.
Preston (41:51.747)
Yeah.
Preston (42:12.323)
I’ll get ya.
Clay (42:19.954)
of excessive degree, which was $300 a month. That’s dearer than only a primary account. The fundamental account is definitely $100 a month. I used to be paying $600 for a similar, quote unquote, identical factor with Preserve. I used to be paying $600 a month. As a result of the way in which excessive degree pricing works is it doesn’t matter what number of contacts you will have, it’s only a flat price.
Preston (42:30.681)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (42:47.126)
Whereas each different software program, the extra contacts you will have, it’s on a scaling pricing mannequin, proper? Yeah, it’s tremendous interesting. And I believe that’s why lots of people transfer over, as a result of it’s like tremendous low-cost.
Preston (42:52.311)
That’s, I imply that may be very interesting, proper? Yeah, yeah.
Preston (43:00.995)
Mm-hmm. And so they can develop with out the concern of paying extra as they develop.
Clay (43:05.646)
Right. Now, right here’s the place I received actually pissed off. Is that they’re not upfront about this. At the least I didn’t see it. Is that I began seeing on my bank card assertion, a bunch of random $10 prices.
Preston (43:23.092)
Oh wow.
Clay (43:24.838)
So, after which I found out they cost a certain quantity per e-mail that’s being despatched.
Preston (43:37.894)
Acquired it, so yeah, corporations that ship emails, they’ll go one among two fashions. It’s both pay primarily based on the quantity that you just ship, or pay primarily based on the variety of contacts that you’ve got.
Clay (43:38.219)
It’s a-
Clay (43:47.882)
Yep. Mm-hmm. However the way in which Excessive Degree does is that they cost you in $10 increments. In order that they cost you a number of cents per e-mail that’s being composed and despatched out. Properly, I received like 20,000 emails. And in order that provides up. So I used to be getting charged like, and I used to be sending out two, three emails every week occasions 20,000 individuals. That provides up lots. And in order that $300.
Preston (44:00.659)
Acquired it. Yeah, yeah.
Preston (44:12.435)
Yeah that provides up.
Clay (44:17.958)
ended up being actually like $475 a month. No, after which on prime of this, as a result of I had an e-mail deliverability subject, like I went from 35 to 9% open charge, I made a decision to spend money on Mailgun, which is meant to assist with this. Now, lead, not like, excessive degree.
Preston (44:25.027)
So at that time, you’re probably not saving that a lot cash.
Preston (44:41.088)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (44:47.314)
used to not have their very own model of mailgun, you used to should get mailgun. Prefer it was.
Preston (44:53.507)
So Mailgun is simply to let everybody know, proper? Isn’t it an e-mail optimizer? Prefer it makes positive your spam ranking is tremendous low, your deliverability is as excessive as it may be.
Clay (45:01.126)
Yeah, yeah, it goes by way of like a verification course of, like they’ll confirm that the e-mail is definitely actual and stuff like that. Like, so again within the day, when excessive degree first got here out, you needed to buy Mailgun. It was required so as so that you can use e-mail. Properly, since then, excessive degree got here up with their very own proprietary one known as Lead Connector. And I attempted Lead Connector at first, and I used to be like, dude, that is this blows, I’m getting 9%.
Preston (45:04.759)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Clay (45:28.31)
Properly they nonetheless have the choice of mailgun so I mentioned okay let me go buy mailgun, see if that’s higher. It did carry it up barely higher, it went from like 9 to love 14-15% which continues to be crap. Yeah. However like mailgun was costing me $150 a month so $475.
Preston (45:39.279)
It’s nonetheless like half of what you had been getting earlier than. Yeah.
Preston (45:46.995)
So now you’re at like 625. You’re mainly at what you had been paying for maintain.
Clay (45:49.874)
Yeah, yeah, it was extra. It was barely greater than what I used to be paying for KEEP after which that, proper, like I used to be finished. I used to be like, I’m paying the identical sum of money. You realize, a minimum of the distinction is, is that with KEEP, I don’t have any of the headache. You realize? So anyhow, that’s the fourth motive. I believe there are constructive opinions as a result of it’s quote unquote cheap. Not in actuality, for my part.
Preston (45:53.912)
Yeah.
Preston (46:06.56)
Yeah.
Clay (46:19.75)
The final one is, and I believe it is a actual motive, is it’s an MLM. We already talked about this. It’s, it’s, they do have the affiliate half which isn’t MLM, however they’ve the MLM the place if you happen to join a bunch of sub-accounts beneath you, like that’s an MLM. As a result of what occurs if you because the grasp account quits? There’s one among two choices. One,
Preston (46:24.822)
Yep.
Clay (46:47.806)
All these subaccounts, they should be transferred to a different individual, one other grasp account. Or, or they join a model new account that’s beneath their very own identify. After which they’ve to begin from scratch.
Preston (47:04.703)
That’s nuts, that’s bonkers to me. I assume I might see like, you already know, like if you happen to’re white labeling it or one thing, you already know, I might form of see why that will work. However, oh, that’s loopy to me. To think about that like, no. Properly, and to think about that my account is topic to your online business, staying in enterprise, and persevering with to make use of that software program, that’s simply nuts.
Clay (47:06.875)
or the account goes away.
Clay (47:22.003)
It’s not moral to me. It’s not moral.
Clay (47:29.298)
Sure. Mm-hmm. I imply, there’s simply an excessive amount of at stake. There’s an excessive amount of at stake as a result of what if I used to be a sub-account beneath any individual else? And I don’t know this, proper? Perhaps I don’t know. Most individuals truly don’t know. They don’t know that if their grasp account decides to not use excessive degree.
Preston (47:40.627)
Yeah, precisely.
Clay (47:54.07)
then their account both must be going to a different individual or they’ve to begin a brand new account or their account goes away. There’s an excessive amount of at stake. I’ve so many workflow automations and I spent so many hours and a lot cash and I’ve 20,000 contacts that I personal. What occurs if my grasp account quits and doesn’t inform me?
Preston (48:13.619)
Yeah, no manner. No manner. Yeah, if that’s actually true, if that’s actually how that works and there’s like no manner of getting back from that, I simply can’t even think about what that’s going to, that’s completely going to return again to chunk them.
Clay (48:23.883)
Proper?
I don’t, I simply don’t need that a lot of my enterprise to be depending on another person like that.
Preston (48:33.419)
Yeah. For me, you already know, that is actually fascinating to wrap this up. I believe, I believe that is, we advise individuals towards this shiny object syndrome on a regular basis and I’ve been responsible of it. You realize, I shared my energetic marketing campaign story. You’ve been responsible of it. We’ve all been responsible of it. It’s very, very straightforward to do, however that is perhaps like one of many clearest tales I’ve ever seen of shiny object syndrome the place it’s like, this simply wasn’t value it. It simply, if one thing is working,
To me, to modify after I’ve finished this unsuitable a pair occasions, to be able to change, it must be like manner, a minimum of twice nearly as good and apparent that it’s gonna be, it could’t simply be marginally higher as a result of most often it’s like, effectively, you already know, if it’s 10% higher, I can most likely determine that out by cobbling collectively a pair additional items of code or apps or integrations or one thing. It must be considerably higher.
Clay (49:08.423)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (49:24.707)
for me to alter all the pieces, danger all of it, as a result of loads of occasions you simply find yourself coming again to what you will have arrange that’s working. When one thing’s working, that’s, I believe we perhaps undervalue that. When one thing, significantly relating to automation and stuff, if it’s working, simply go away it alone.
Clay (49:25.155)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (49:40.982)
Yep, that’s the lesson of this episode. I imply, even if you happen to’re on excessive degree presently and also you’re listening and it’s working, simply maintain it. Yeah, simply maintain it.
Preston (49:49.951)
And don’t change as a result of we mentioned to if it’s working. Yeah. Yeah, we’ll additionally embody hyperlinks to Clay’s excessive degree sub account. You may join beneath him.
Clay (50:02.034)
Hey, I do have an affiliate hyperlink if you wish to join. I’m a Preserve Licensed Companion now.
Preston (50:07.251)
Oh, we is not going to be together with hyperlinks to Excessive Degree after this episode. Not that anybody would click on on them. We are going to embody, you already know, I’ll embody our listing of prime 10 CRMs for freelancers and businesses, which is definitely one among our hottest weblog posts, and it does embody on their maintain. I used to be going to incorporate Excessive Degree, however after this dialog, I don’t suppose I’ll. We’ll see how time performs on the market.
You realize what? They may come again too, proper? They may in 5 years from now, might be like they’re the market chief and indeniable. However for now, yeah, for now, thanks for sharing your story, Clay, and serving to the remainder of us know to not perhaps suppose twice earlier than we go leap on the shiny bandwagon of go excessive degree.
Clay (50:33.538)
They may come again, yeah.
Clay (50:53.403)
I’m hoping, that is what I’m hoping to achieve with this episode is the individuals which are presently on it they usually’re annoyed with it however they’re making an attempt to hold on to it however they hear all people else saying it’s important to use this. Right here’s validation. You do not need to make use of it if you happen to’re annoyed.
Preston (51:11.071)
You don’t, you already know what, that goes for any software program you’re utilizing. It ought to make your life simpler. You do not need to stay with something simply because it’s quote unquote the market chief or since you noticed another person use it. Like this occurred a short time in the past. You understand how Pat Flynn, Sensible Passive Revenue, for years, he made an enormous bulk of his earnings from selling Bluehost as an affiliate.
Clay (51:15.096)
Anybody, yeah.
Clay (51:33.768)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (51:35.999)
And it seems Bluehost is simply okay relating to internet hosting. If you would like something greater than primary internet hosting, Bluehost will not be actually the most suitable choice. And but, yeah, and but individuals talked about it prefer it was the very best factor as a result of they received 200 bucks each time somebody signed up, proper? Yeah, oh yeah, and Bluehost is aware of it. And so they lean into that technique. And when it comes to advertising and marketing, good on them. When it comes to truly buyer satisfaction and…
Clay (51:44.298)
I believe it’s lower than okay.
Clay (51:51.866)
Oh, they received the very best fee, the very best, yeah.
Preston (52:04.367)
precise product, they positively have room to enhance. All that to say, you don’t should go together with what everybody’s speaking about as a result of usually what everybody’s speaking about, there are different motives moreover simply your greatest pursuits in thoughts. Preserve that in thoughts. It’s a very good factor to consider if you’re contemplating switching. Clay Mosley from GetDripify.com. Been tremendous enlightening for me right now, hopefully useful for the listeners as effectively. Thanks a lot, man.
Clay (52:08.246)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (52:19.746)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (52:33.406)
Yeah, for positive. Completely satisfied to rant, as all the time. Ha ha.
Preston (52:36.972)
This has been our longest Q&A episode to this point, however I wished a rant. That is completely a full episode. You’re getting loads of bang in your buck on this episode, positively. I’ve been Preston with milo.co and we are going to speak to you guys subsequent time. See you.
Clay (52:41.87)
This may be a full episode.
Clay (52:52.994)
See ya.