Preston (00:01.222)
Hey and welcome again to a different episode of Freelance to Founder. My identify is Preston Lee with Millo.co and becoming a member of me on the air as all the time is my good good friend Clay Mosley from GetDripify.com. Hey, Clay.
Clay (00:12.178)
What’s occurring?
Preston (00:14.206)
So what’s occurring is we’re catching up at present with Travis Boyko who can also be on the air with us. Hey Travis. And what’s cool about Travis is you’re on the present, we have been simply speaking earlier than we hit report, possibly six or eight months in the past. And sadly, Clay, due to loopy climate, wasn’t capable of be a part of us on the present. So I’m form of introducing the 2 of you at present, however we’re going to meet up with you Travis and learn the way your corporation goes since we final talked, what you’ve realized.
Travis (00:20.929)
Hey guys.
Preston (00:43.151)
Perhaps reply just a few extra questions you may need and simply form of form of catch up for a minute. So welcome We’re excited to have you ever
Travis (00:49.241)
Thanks guys for being right here.
Preston (00:51.462)
Nicely, let’s begin off, let’s remind the listeners just a little bit about your corporation. If we may, Travis, inform them what you’re engaged on and possibly paint an image like in the event that they, you understand, what they may acknowledge you from speaking about six or eight months in the past and I actually ought to know that quantity extra solidly, however I don’t. After which, you understand, what you’re form of engaged on now.
Travis (01:10.849)
Yeah, completely. So, hey everyone, my identify is Travis. I’m a graphic designer and author. I’m primarily based out of Ottawa and Canada. So I mainly assist firms, groups, and other people stand out in digital age by means of a wide range of visible and communicative mediums. The final episode that I used to be on, I feel it was, we have been form of discussing like, the way it was potential to make issues work. On the time I used to be working full time at an organization and was performing some freelance stuff on the aspect.
It was actually taking on plenty of my time on the free time that I did have and I used to be simply chatting with you simply to determine, hey, like, when can be the suitable time to essentially do it? What have been a few of these markers that may assist me decide, hey, now, simply go and do it? So yeah, that’s what we have been chatting about. Wait, so that you’re full time now? Yeah, full time now. So I stop my job and I began issues totally in June of this 12 months.
Clay (01:57.099)
Wait, so that you’re full time now?
Good.
Preston (02:01.374)
Congrats.
Clay (02:06.702)
Congratulations.
Preston (02:07.109)
Oh man, I adore it. That’s an enormous deal.
Travis (02:09.165)
Thanks guys, yeah, it’s been incredible.
Preston (02:11.438)
Yeah, if you wish to take heed to Travis’s unique episode, I discovered it right here within the archives. It aired on February ninth of 2023. It’s October proper now of the identical 12 months as we speak. And the episode is named, Can You Make This Work? And so yeah, you understand, Travis was, as he stated, he had this aspect hustle going, he had a full-time job that you simply really, I imply, you loved it, Travis, if I bear in mind proper. However the query is rather like, ought to I ever, ought to I ever actually think about quitting my job, taking the enterprise full-time?
What do I have to know earlier than I try this? What sort of security internet would possibly I want? These form of questions. And so it’s actually cool to listen to that you simply have been capable of make that leap. I’d love to listen to how you bought to that time. Like how did you resolve, you understand what, I’m going to take the leap. I’m going to take this full time. What was the catalyst for that?
Travis (02:53.793)
Yeah, actually, it’s such an excellent query. And I completely agree. Like once we have been chatting, I used to be in my function and I used to be not hating it by any means. It was plenty of enjoyable. The folks that I used to be working with, my crew was superb. The content material that I used to be engaged on was incredible. However on the similar time, I used to be doing my very own enterprise on the aspect. I had mainly been doing it for 4 years on the time, simply form of carving out a while every time I can. And the massive catalyst for me was similar to,
I feel simply listening to you guys, listening to different entrepreneurs form of do their very own factor and begin their very own companies, I simply form of reached a degree the place I used to be like, I both take the chance and see if this works out or I don’t and be form of like plagued with the concept of the what if, if it by no means occurred, I by no means took the hassle to essentially commit myself to it. I additionally simply reached a degree the place I used to be taking over much more work.
Preston (03:41.343)
Yeah.
Travis (03:51.589)
And I bodily couldn’t do it with my full-time job. So I reached a degree the place it was like, properly, if I open up some extra time by leaving my job, it will give me the pliability and the chance to essentially work with the shoppers that I do have, take extra tasks with them, discover new tasks and new shoppers. So it simply, yeah, simply actually opening myself as much as extra alternative.
Preston (04:13.09)
Yeah, I really like that. I, you understand, I heard a very long time in the past and I can’t bear in mind the place I heard this, that I suppose it’s statistically proven that you simply are likely to remorse extra issues that you simply didn’t do than issues that you simply did, proper? And for me, that was all the time like after I was, trigger I used to be in your similar sneakers, I did the aspect hustle for eight years or one thing. After which the entire time I used to be like, man, ought to I take this full time? Ought to I strive it? Ought to I do it? The entire time I’m pondering like,
I’d have regrets if I didn’t do it greater than if I attempted it and failed. Proper? And so, I suppose what recommendation Travis would you will have for people who find themselves possibly a 12 months behind you in progress or no matter? And I say progress, that is provided that you really need to take your corporation full time. You don’t essentially must, after all that’s form of the premise of the present, however like let’s say there’s somebody in your sneakers, they bought a aspect hustle they’re actually having fun with, however they’ve bought a job they possibly take pleasure in. They’re not going to get fired possibly from their job or no matter, and they also have to truly make this determination and say,
You realize, when ought to I take my enterprise full time if ever? You realize, what recommendation, what would you say to them?
Travis (05:14.465)
Yeah, it’s an amazing query and I feel even when I used to be simply talking to love my earlier self I feel it’s simply have the boldness and actually attempt to get out of your consolation zone If you’ll be able to do it, I do know it’s it is likely to be tough for some of us are in several monetary positions They’ve totally different household lives and issues like that. I used to be ready the place I Had a pleasant backing. I don’t have any like children that I have to assist and issues like that So it was just a little bit simpler of a choice
Preston (05:33.883)
Yeah.
Travis (05:42.561)
However for me, an enormous factor that was preserving me from doing it, it was plenty of imposter syndrome, a matter of, properly, may I do that if I actually push myself to it? If I depart my job, will folks suppose that I’m a fraud or they suppose I received’t be adequate? And that’s so not true, and that’s precisely the alternative of what turned out. I feel, if something, the issues that I assumed would come up.
Preston (05:49.994)
Mm-hmm.
Travis (06:09.101)
didn’t and another unexpected issues arose that I’d not have considered. So I feel my important recommendation is simply you probably have the fervour and drive to do it and also you’re actually trying to strive one thing new, 100%, such as you stated Preston, I feel I’d remorse not doing it.
Clay (06:27.786)
You realize what’s so humorous is I all the time inform folks that worrying works as a result of like 95% of the issues that you simply fear about by no means occur. So in case you don’t need it to occur, go fear about it.
Travis (06:38.019)
Hehehehehehehehehehe
Preston (06:39.004)
It completely works.
Travis (06:43.51)
Yeah.
Preston (06:46.37)
Yeah, Clay, do you will have any, properly, I need to come again to Travis in only a minute. You could be pondering, such as you stated, there have been some issues that got here up that you simply weren’t anticipating. So I’d wish to get again into that in only a minute. However Clay, is there something you’d add for somebody who’s in Travis’s place a 12 months in the past, going like, I simply, you understand, ought to I do, ought to I do this, ought to I take the leap? When’s the suitable time to try this? What recommendation do you will have for them?
Clay (07:09.422)
Hmm, you understand, that is this actually I imply it’s actually depends upon like that is essentially the most annoying reply it relies upon However actually each particular person’s scenario is totally different. You realize, it’s there’s financials. There’s there’s household. There’s You realize who if like your partner who you’re married to what do they suppose? It’s it’s I imply there’s so many various issues my I’d say that
Preston (07:18.134)
Yeah
Clay (07:39.422)
All of it comes all the way down to what does your intestine let you know? That’s what normally does it for me, is so long as you’ll be able to comfortably really feel assured in saying that in case you went and made the total leap full time, which you can pay your payments and you’ll be okay, go together with your intestine.
As a result of, you understand, I don’t know. It is a robust query for me to reply as a result of, and similar factor with you, Preston, as a result of I used to be fired from my job. I had no alternative. So I’ve by no means been in that scenario the place I had the precise alternative of ought to I stop or ought to I not? As a result of fairly actually, I don’t know if I’d have stop simply pondering again on my private scenario as a result of I used to be comfy.
Preston (08:10.255)
Yeah.
Preston (08:21.071)
Yep.
Preston (08:36.918)
Yeah, yeah, Cammy and I’ve talked about this the place my spouse and the place I’m unsure we might have. Like I considered it nearly every single day as a result of I used to be doing it on the aspect, proper? However yeah, it takes plenty of braveness to do what you’ve performed, Travis, which is to simply say I’m going for it, you understand?
Clay (08:43.87)
Yeah, I… Mm-hmm. Yeah, similar.
Clay (08:54.13)
It does, yeah.
Travis (08:59.795)
It’s a bit nerve-racking, however I positively admire it.
Preston (09:04.071)
One thing although I bear in mind is like whether or not you’re compelled into it or whether or not you make that call, I really feel just like the adrenaline kicks in a lot that truly helps you. Like some days I want I had just a little extra adrenaline in my enterprise, in the best way I work in my enterprise. I’m fairly like comfy proper now, you understand? And issues are going easily and like, yeah, we strive new issues and we construct new income streams, however I’m not almost as hungry as I used to be after I first began full time as a result of I used to be like…
I’ve one thing to show. Like I’m six years in, six and a half years in now, and it’s like, yeah, I’m good. I don’t must show something to anybody now. I’m in enterprise, I’ve stayed in enterprise, I’ll keep in enterprise. However there’s like that, and it’s form of enjoyable, proper? It’s form of a thrill just a little bit. Yeah.
Clay (09:30.026)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (09:46.53)
That may be a enjoyable stage, that could be a enjoyable stage. Additionally essentially the most nerve wracking.
Preston (09:50.374)
I used to be gonna say possibly it’s extra enjoyable in hindsight, proper? It’s like a type of belongings you look again on later fondly, however within the second you’re like, man, I’d actually wish to get some sleep and never fear about the place my subsequent meal’s coming from or no matter, however.
Travis (10:03.509)
Yeah, I imply, for me, it was positively nerve wracking. And I feel proper if you form of resolve to make that call, it’s actually struggle or flight coming from like a company setting the place you will have your form of set hours, you will have your wage, you will have your days that look related in sure methods. They usually’re structured in sure methods the place I stop my job, got here again to start out my very own factor.
the world was fully open, my schedule was fully open, it’s fully as much as me to start out shifting. It hits you fairly fast, however I feel for me not less than, the joy and the chance that might be had there, I feel form of overcame that just a little bit. It made it a bit simpler and it wasn’t as terrifying.
Preston (10:32.516)
Yeah.
Preston (10:47.272)
Yeah.
Preston (10:51.13)
Yeah, I agree. And I, I like, I used to be far more excited to stand up for work throughout that interval than I feel I ever have been in my life, together with now, regardless that I really like what I do, um, you understand, and I really like getting up and dealing by myself enterprise, however there’s simply one thing about that. Perhaps one 12 months interval when it’s similar to all or nothing, proper? That is the second that I’m both going to make it or I’m going to fall on my face and, uh, and also you kick it into the following gear and also you, and also you both make it occur otherwise you don’t. And I feel.
And possibly that is kind of survivor’s bias just a little bit, proper? However I really feel like most individuals make it work. Should you take, such as you stated, Clay, belief your intestine sufficient and also you’ve crunched the numbers sufficient and it makes logical and intestine sense, such as you take the leap and most of the people, it really works out.
Clay (11:35.274)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I feel, you understand, I want any individual had instructed me, like, as a result of us as human beings, what we do, the best way we’re motivated simply usually, is that I feel nearly all of us are motivated to keep away from a adverse scenario, versus motivated by pursuing a optimistic scenario, like a reward, proper? So I feel that’s why, like,
Preston (12:01.146)
Yeah. Yep.
Clay (12:04.534)
each you and I have been each motivated, as a result of I don’t find out about you, my again was up towards the wall. And so I used to be attempting to keep away from an excellent worse scenario. And once more, I didn’t know the place my subsequent meal was coming from. And in order that’s form of really the mentality. For these of you, I feel, who wish to make that voluntary alternative of leaving a full-time gig and going…
Preston (12:11.012)
Yeah. Yep.
Clay (12:33.854)
freelancer. I feel, and that is tremendous robust to do, however I feel engaged on that thoughts body of that, like everyone thinks of, oh yeah, like what if I had like a seven determine company? What would that do? Like, sure, that’s motivating. However I feel concurrently, I feel we’d like to consider a adverse scenario we’re attempting to keep away from. And so even to at the present time, like proper now, like,
These days, one factor that I attempt to put in my head is, so my daughter’s identify is Georgia. I all the time suppose, what if any individual had kidnapped Georgia and stated, it’s important to go make 10 gross sales this month, in any other case you’ll not get her again. And so I’d don’t have any drawback going and discover 10 gross sales and I’ll determine it out with zero judgment from.
Preston (13:21.742)
Yeah, you’d don’t have any drawback.
Clay (13:30.95)
whoever proper? Like I, the judgment in my thoughts goes out the door. Like what is going to folks suppose? You realize, as a result of that’s a, that’s an actual legitimate factor. It’s like individuals are afraid to make gross sales and do gross sales calls and DMs or no matter as a result of they’re afraid of what folks would suppose or like concern of rejection. However I’m like, but when, if your loved ones members kidnap and that was the one method you may get that particular person again, like I’m assure you, you’re not going to essentially care about judgment. So.
Preston (13:36.816)
Yep, yep.
Clay (13:58.15)
It’s far more motivating for my part. I feel it’s like a 70-30, 70 to keep away from 30 to pursue one thing optimistic.
Preston (14:06.59)
Hmm, yeah, actually fascinating to consider it that method and let that concern encourage you, proper? So Travis, I wanna hear from you. You stated earlier within the present, there have been some issues that as you made the change, you thought have been gonna occur that didn’t ever occur and a few issues that you simply by no means even considered that did occur. What are possibly among the unexpected, if somebody’s listening and so they’re going, yeah, I’d like to do what Travis did, however I actually simply don’t know what to anticipate. What are some issues that you simply didn’t count on that did occur?
Clay (14:11.437)
Yep.
Travis (14:23.801)
Thanks for watching!
Travis (14:37.505)
Yeah, positively. And I feel for me and again to what we have been simply speaking about being a motivator, like I feel for me, like cash is a giant motivator and with the ability to have that common paycheck, the common revenue. And that was one of many issues that was actually holding me again towards doing this. And after I jumped into issues, I in a short time realized like, oh, in case you put your effort and time into it, there will probably be a capability to realize that.
Preston (14:48.337)
Yeah.
Preston (15:05.534)
Hmm.
Travis (15:06.465)
So it’s not as a lot of a stress. The issues that I didn’t count on, actually, it is likely to be actually, actually boring, however I feel simply due to the character of my enterprise, like I’m a designer and I’m a author, I don’t actually have a lot overhead. I do all the pieces fully digitally, all distant, nothing that I actually, actually must be too involved about, no like storefronts or something like that. The issues that I didn’t count on have been simply the executive work. Numerous just like the monetary side,
Preston (15:32.658)
Hmm.
Travis (15:35.521)
ensuring all the pieces’s so as, I’m preserving monitor of all the pieces, ensuring that I’m listening to the hours that I’m working and following up with shoppers extra rigorously and issues like that. All of the stuff within the backend that I wouldn’t have historically performed, particularly as a full-time particular person, as a result of it’s simply a part of the job, you’re simply doing it as a part of the character of your work. These issues I didn’t actually count on and particularly earlier than after I was freelancing on the aspect, there have been extra like…
smaller tasks so somebody would come to me for a pair graphics or a pair issues right here and there the place I wouldn’t actually must put a lot shopper interfacing in the place I now if I’m trying to do greater tasks I’m trying to get extra work trying to meet new shoppers trying to do all that was the extra surprising factor it appears apparent however I feel the quantity of labor that it takes and the time that it takes was simply I simply didn’t count on it
Preston (16:31.118)
Yeah, that’s actually fascinating. I, you understand, individuals who have listened to the present so much are possibly going to be bugged that I preserve bringing this up, however there’s this ebook, the E-Fable Revisited. Should you haven’t learn it, it’s important to learn it. And it talks about service suppliers or craftsmen or makers. I don’t bear in mind what he calls them. It’s been just a few years since I’ve learn it, however mainly people who find themselves gifted at one thing like what you’re gifted at Travis, which is like graphic design, writing, artistic work. Proper. I bear in mind he provides the instance of a baker, for instance, and he, and he’s, he’s like one of the best baker. He works at a bakery.
And so he’s like, I’m going to start out a bakery and trigger everybody’s telling me how scrumptious my, you understand, my baked items are or no matter. And he begins a bakery and all the sudden he’s not a baker. He’s a enterprise proprietor and now he has to handle funds and he has to handle clients and he has to pay hire and he has like all these administrative duties. And he’s like, I’ve no time to bake. Uh, as a result of now I’ve to run a enterprise. And I feel that’s what plenty of us don’t see, which is like.
notably in case you’re working in-house within the factor that you simply need to go into enterprise as graphic design or no matter it is likely to be, you don’t see all of the stuff that folks within the enterprise are doing that you simply’re not doing. Nicely, when you’re doing graphic design, another person within the constructing is doing the accounting and another person within the constructing is doing the HR work and another person within the constructing is doing the advertising and marketing. And like there’s all these things that another person is doing that when you go by yourself, it’s on you. You’ve bought to do it. Or a enterprise can’t perform with out a few of these primary.
wants being met.
Travis (17:59.373)
Yeah, completely. And that’s, I bear in mind our earlier dialog, that was one of many issues that I discussed and that was an enormous cause why I used to be form of buzzing and hawing about making a choice was like, I’m not an accountant. I’ve little or no information of how cash works within the enterprise sense. Like I perceive tips on how to get shoppers and I perceive tips on how to cost for like billable hours and issues like that. However past that, like taxes are terrifying, ensuring.
Preston (18:18.457)
Yeah.
Travis (18:29.129)
all of your submitting is completed in a sure method, ensuring you will have all of your seats, placing all of it so as, monitoring all the pieces you do. Like that for me was an enormous sense of tension. However I imply, in a sure sense, and possibly higher for folk listening too, you form of determine it out as you go alongside the best way. I feel I had an inclination to take a look at the entire image as like, I’ve to determine.
Preston (18:40.667)
Yeah.
Preston (18:48.282)
Yeah. Yep.
Travis (18:54.645)
all my taxes I’ve to determine, all the executive stuff, the minute I mainly begin my enterprise the place it’s a reasonably iterative course of and also you study as you go, so possibly simply not taking a look at it as this large insurmountable wall.
Clay (19:06.182)
Yeah. You realize what’s good in regards to the starting is that you simply discover ways to do form of all the pieces so that you simply perceive all the pieces. That doesn’t imply it’s important to do all the pieces eternally. It’s like you will have most likely performed sufficient accounting and monetary stuff the place you’re similar to, okay, I perceive this. Now let me simply go rent a CPA or an accountant to simply do that going ahead. As a result of I feel it’s good to love perceive it.
Preston (19:30.66)
Yeah.
Clay (19:36.278)
however such as you simply don’t have to do it, proper?
Preston (19:38.554)
Yep. At the very least to have a primary understanding of how each bit of your corporation works. Proper. And, and till you will have tons of of staff, like I really feel like not less than it is best to have, it is best to have a reasonably good grasp on, on what every of your. Like if, if I, for some cause had all of my teammates depart the corporate at present, it will be terrible and I’d abruptly not have any time apart from work time. Trigger I’d simply must do all the pieces they’re doing, however I feel I may do most of what they’ve performed.
Clay (19:42.591)
Yeah.
Preston (20:08.41)
Proper? And that’s to not say they haven’t contributed uniquely to the crew and to the processes, as a result of they clearly carry their very own abilities and skills to the method, however just like the fundamentals of what has to get performed for our firm to maintain working and making a living, I perceive. Proper? And so I feel that’s necessary when your corporation is a sure measurement, that you simply perceive how these issues work. And then you definately’re proper. I imply, I went by means of just a few iterations of how I dealt with my bookkeeping and my taxes.
till I lastly employed this firm known as Collective, which I can hyperlink to. And now they simply deal with all of it for me. However I went by means of like spreadsheets after which I did like a QuickBooks factor after which I did a service known as Bench and like I simply tried all these various things. And also you’re proper, Travis, you’re not gonna get it proper out the gate. Issues are gonna change. And that’s, in my thoughts, that’s form of the enjoyable of enterprise is like, okay, right here’s what we’ve been doing and I’d like to do that totally different factor.
and see if it’s extra profitable and if it grows my firm and frees up my time and helps me develop the enterprise. I simply suppose that’s all actually thrilling. That’s form of the enjoyable of it versus like a dead-end desk job the place it’s like, properly, nothing ever modifications right here. You realize.
Travis (21:15.393)
Yeah, I positively agree. And I feel that’s one of many issues that’s been tremendous rewarding in regards to the precise enterprise possession side of this entire factor is the truth that you will have that form of full management, which is simply not out there in different settings. With all these instruments and accounting softwares and all these items which can be out there on-line now, it may be overwhelming, however there’s some kind of freedom in it the place you’ll be able to see which you can be versatile. You possibly can check the issues.
that give you the results you want. They may not work for different folks. They is likely to be platforms or issues that some folks argue towards, but when it really works for you and you want the way it features and it makes your processes extra streamlined, then hey, that’s incredible. And not less than you will have the selection to try this.
Preston (21:59.706)
Yeah, yeah, that’s true. That’s what I feel that’s what I really like essentially the most is such as you don’t must go ask anybody in case you can change it. You don’t have to love have a advice for one thing superior solely to have it fall on deaf ears or crimson tape or no matter. Like yeah, you will have the pliability to manage your individual processes and your individual path in your corporation. I wanna speak to Travis. I do know you stated you had a few questions now. You’ve been in enterprise for your self full time for just a little bit right here now. What questions have arisen that you simply suppose
You realize, we’re possibly a few years forward of you, just a few years forward of you on this strategy of being self-employed. What questions may we attempt to reply for you at present earlier than we wrap up this name?
Travis (22:38.145)
Yeah, yeah, for certain. I imply, I’ve like two massive questions. I do know you guys speak about scaling very often. So if we have now time, possibly we are able to speak about that after. However one of many issues I did need to ask about is form of like, I suppose, the alternative of burnout. So like, I’ve all the time been form of like vehemently towards this entire like,
Preston (22:46.728)
Mm-hmm.
Travis (23:03.041)
hustle tradition, like, rise and grind, and like, working each single waking hour. Like, if that’s your factor, like, you do you. No matter works for you. However I’ve personally, I’ve felt the influence of being burnt out and being overworked, and I do know that it may be simply as unhealthy as like, not doing something. However now that I’ve like, began my enterprise, I’ve common work and shoppers coming in, and I’ve lastly gotten over the preliminary like, terror and the leap of religion of really doing it.
Preston (23:04.482)
Yeah.
Travis (23:29.901)
How do you get previous a side of like comfortability and guaranteeing that you simply’re persevering with to push ahead with out form of reaching that state of exhaustion?
Preston (23:41.394)
Yeah, that is such an excellent query. I’d have an interest to listen to what you say, Clay, however like, that pendulum has swung forwards and backwards so many instances for me. However my motivation has by no means been wish to develop up hundreds of thousands and hundreds of thousands of {dollars} price of income. I simply, I needed the approach to life that comes with being self-employed. I really like cash, don’t get me improper. However yeah, I’m form of with you. I, that kind of.
Clay (23:43.323)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (24:09.29)
And I love and respect him, however that kind of Gary Vee, hustle in any respect prices tradition, that’s robust for me. I don’t resonate with that. And so yeah, I fall on this too typically the place it’s like, oh, income was down this month and I didn’t even discover as a result of I used to be off hanging out with my household or no matter. And for me, it’s nearly figuring out what’s most necessary after which additionally giving significance or weight to the issues that…
that deserve it. So clearly income in my firm actually issues. However does an additional $1,000 this month matter that a lot? Nicely, at this stage of my enterprise, possibly not. It wouldn’t make or break my enterprise, whereas within the first few months it might have. And so for me, it’s about preserving issues in perspective. Is it price me working an additional 10 hours this week to make an additional $1,000? I don’t know.
If which means I’ve to overlook a faculty play and a church occasion and a service factor and a no matter, an evening out with my buddies or my household, I don’t know if that basically is price it for me. So for me, it’s about preserving it in perspective. After which there are some months the place it’s like, properly, if I don’t work actually exhausting this month, we’re going to be in bother. I’m going to have a tough time paying my folks. I’m going to have a tough time making a revenue. And so, okay, this month I’m going to buckle down and I’m going to overlook some issues with my household or I’m going to overlook some issues with my buddies.
However once more, it comes again to that flexibility you’ve talked about Travis, which is like, typically I’m gonna give far more time to my household or no matter else. Generally I’m gonna give far more time to my enterprise. And we’ve talked about this on the present too, Clay, which is like, there’s no such factor as work-life steadiness if you’re self-employed. It’s simply form of like work and life intertwinement, proper? And like integration, yeah, that’s proper. What else would you add, man?
Clay (25:55.659)
Integration.
Clay (26:00.694)
Yeah, that’s a very good query. As somebody who has been on either side, after I first was a freelancer, I used to be positively in that hustle grind tradition. And that’s simply because I didn’t have children. I didn’t have any hobbies. What else am I alleged to do? So I simply labored my ass off and I labored like 80 plus hour weeks. And that was simply not as a result of I needed to, I simply, I favored it.
Travis (26:21.319)
Hehehe
Clay (26:31.558)
Now that I’ve a daughter and only for transparency, a wedding that I really like being in. I used to be married earlier than first marriage. It’s totally different now. And once more, I’m with Preston. I really like cash. So my factor is, however what does that cash do for me?
Preston (27:01.361)
Yeah.
Clay (27:01.702)
Proper. It’s not about like how a lot cash I’ve within the financial institution. It’s like, what’s that cash really completed for me? To me, that’s the true the true motivation behind that’s like cash is a superficial reply, for my part. It’s like, what’s that going to do for you? Is that going to let you.
uh, do some issues with your loved ones that you wouldn’t have been capable of do, you understand, trigger I, I like, I grew up tremendous dust poor. Um, I can rely on method lower than one hand, what number of household holidays we took as a child. Like we didn’t take household holidays. Um, in actual fact, I can rely on one finger what number of instances we really went out to eat like at a restaurant my complete childhood. Um, so
That’s for me, that’s form of the motivation is like, I wanna be capable of present the experiences for my children that I used to be not capable of do, you understand? However so far as like tactical issues, as a result of Travis, you’re motivated by cash as you talked about earlier than, I’m too. One factor for me, there’s a pair issues so far as techniques right here.
I get actually burnt out after I’m doing plenty of issues for a very long time and I don’t make a sale.
As a result of it similar to messes with my thoughts. And I feel, what the hell am I doing? Like, why am I doing what I’m doing for therefore lengthy? It’s not working as a result of I haven’t made a sale but. Proper? So with a purpose to deter that, I’ve a mentality of 1 sale a day. Not saying that I do make a sale a day, that’s simply my efforts each single day. So what does that imply? It means
Clay (29:02.69)
I be certain that earlier than I do anything, each single work day, is I make 5 pitches to love alternatives, people who find themselves on my hit checklist, proper? Like folks I’ve prospected with or networked with or no matter. After which I additionally do 5 comply with ups. So individuals who I’ve already pitched to, however I’m simply doing a comply with up. I do that each single day. As a result of I’ve this mentality of.
I have to make a sale, like one sale a day. In order that ensures that I’ve some kind of gross sales exercise each single day in order that I don’t have like these large gross sales slumps. As a result of gross sales as a enterprise proprietor is precedence, proper? Like that’s tremendous precedence. Yeah, for certain.
Preston (29:50.834)
Nicely, in case you don’t have gross sales, I say this on a regular basis. Should you’re not making a living, you’re not in enterprise, proper? You might have an amazing passion, however in case you’re not making a living, you’re not in enterprise.
Clay (30:00.782)
Yeah, I imply you might like to do like graphic design, however yeah, once more, on the finish of the day, in case you don’t have gross sales, like what’s the purpose? So I feel that’s one factor. One other factor that basically modified my enterprise was the, I feel we talked about it earlier than on a, I feel we talked about it earlier than on a podcast. Grasp on one second. I’m going to pause for a second.
Clay (30:26.322)
Sorry, you’ll must edit that out in put up. So I feel we talked about this on one episode, the ebook Traction. Have you ever learn that ebook, Travis?
Preston (30:28.082)
You needed to, you needed to sneeze.
Travis (30:39.424)
No, I’ve not
Clay (30:41.094)
It’s by Gino Wickman. Preston can hyperlink it.
Preston (30:47.866)
Yeah, we’ll hyperlink it for certain. You’ve introduced this ebook up a few instances, Clay.
Clay (30:51.058)
Yeah, so form of the entire premise of that is folks monitor their enterprise success, I suppose, by income, proper? How a lot income I bought coming in. The issue with that’s that they try this after it’s performed. So what I imply is like we’re nearly on the finish of October. I’m going to go
Did I meet my objective? No. Nicely, shit. Like, it’s too late for October as a result of it’s already performed, it’s previously. Are you able to do something about it about October? No, as a result of it’s already performed. So, what traction talks about is having what they name scorecard. And the scorecard is only a checklist of like actions that have an effect on issues like income, proper?
So it’s nearly, it’s like, did you do 5 gross sales pitches? Did you do 5 follow-ups? Did you put up on social media? Did you write that e mail at present? It’s the exercise that generates the outcome. So that you monitor the actions and that offers you a pulse of your corporation in any given snapshot in actual time. Proper? The outcomes comply with, yeah.
Preston (32:16.494)
After which the outcomes comply with, is that what you’re saying? That is form of like what we talked about with Zach final episode, which is like, there are some issues which you can management and you’ll assure, and there are some issues you’ll be able to’t management. And it’s important to concentrate on the issues which you can management, each together with your shopper work and in your individual enterprise. I really like fascinated about it that method. And I’d additionally suggest, Travis, as you’re speaking about this un-hustle tradition, how do I?
Clay (32:27.18)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (32:42.574)
How do I discover the suitable steadiness between hustling and rising my enterprise and being happy? There’s this ebook by Paul Jarvis known as Firm of One and he talks so much about simply being happy with not rising, simply being okay with that and never feeling responsible that your corporation isn’t rising and notably not rising tremendous quick. However to determine what’s necessary to you and if income is a very powerful then yeah after all then you definately hustle for the income.
Clay (33:02.143)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (33:10.118)
But when free time, if flexibility, if success in your work, if these issues are extra necessary, then you definately hustle till these issues are met after which it’s okay to not really feel like it’s important to be hustling on a regular basis. So I feel for me, that’s how you discover the pleased medium is you say like, why am I actually doing this? If I’m actually doing this to turn into a millionaire, properly then yeah, I bought to hustle till my enterprise is raking in that form of cash. If I’m actually motivated…
to do that as a result of I would like that free time, I would like further time with folks I care about, or I would like further time for hobbies or no matter, then you definately hustle till you attain that and you discover that good steadiness. And I feel you’ll be able to form of sense it. It’s like, oh, I’ve most likely taken too many days off, proper? Or I’ve minimize too many days quick and gone to play pickleball or no matter it’s. And you may form of sense when that will get out of whack. And I feel the objective is to maintain that lined up as a result of you too can sense when
Travis (33:56.217)
Thanks for watching!
Preston (34:07.166)
You’ve been placing in too many hours at work and also you’re beginning to really feel burned out or ignoring individuals who you care about. And so for me, it’s all about similar to that’s that pendulum is gonna swing. How will you decrease the depth of that swing? Proper. Um, to remain within the center as a lot as you’ll be able to. Yeah.
Clay (34:21.882)
Mm-hmm. That’s why I like traction, proper? Simply maintaining together with your actions as a result of it’s a controllable factor. The sails will are available in waves, however it should are available in constantly. However in case you do all of your actions that you simply’re supposed to trace, then it ought to be okay. It ought to assist with burnout.
Travis (34:23.053)
Yeah.
Travis (34:41.617)
Yeah, I positively agree and I just like the analogy of the pendulum and ensuring that it’s not swinging so closely and clay with what you’re saying by way of ensuring you will have form of these form of like low depth duties that You possibly can simply do usually And they may not appear to be it’s a complete lot on the day However over all the span of the month, they actually do add up after which that method you’re not simply form of
Preston (34:41.662)
What are you listening to over there, Travis? Yeah.
Travis (35:06.925)
burning your self out, attempting to blow by means of it multi function go, attempting to catch up for missed time. As a result of I positively seen that. I feel one of many struggles of being a enterprise proprietor and doing issues by yourself phrases is that you’re holding your self wholly accountable. And there are occasions the place…
Preston (35:08.486)
Mm-mm.
Travis (35:24.373)
you won’t really feel like you will have the flexibility to place in a pair extra hours, so that you would possibly simply take the day off, however then you definately’re like, oh, really, now I want to essentially ramp that up the following day. So it’s swinging method, method too closely. So yeah, I positively agree. I feel that’s one thing that I may positively put in place, um, just a bit bit extra construction, possibly ensuring that there’s some kind of accountability, however not a lot accountability that’s unreasonable or not even attaining the objective that I would like.
Clay (35:42.2)
Yeah.
Preston (35:47.831)
Yeah.
Clay (35:50.082)
There’s a-
Preston (35:50.306)
Yeah, yeah, that’s proper. Trigger you don’t need to, you don’t need to construct a enterprise or arrange a scenario to the place you’re hustling on a regular basis and don’t have any time for this different stuff that you simply care a lot about, proper? The entire cause you bought into enterprise for your self within the first place, if you wish to work lengthy hours, you’ll be able to go discover a job the place they are going to work you so long as you need to be labored, proper? Um, and so, yeah, I feel, I feel for me, it’s simply all about that steadiness. Clay, did you will have extra?
Clay (36:13.206)
Yeah, there’s one other ebook I’d extremely suggest. It’s by the fellows from Basecamp. Rework, yeah. Distant. They’ve a few distant. After which it’s one thing known as like work socks or one thing like work doesn’t must suck or one thing like that. Yeah. So I’m particularly speaking about rework.
Preston (36:20.21)
Oh, rework. Is that so good? And their different what’s their different one? It’s on my shelf. I’m gonna look
Preston (36:28.478)
It’s not a mishap.
Preston (36:33.518)
Oh yeah, work doesn’t, one thing like that. Yeah, work doesn’t must suck or.
Travis (36:37.112)
Hmm.
Clay (36:43.182)
They’re a giant shtick of what they speak about within the ebook is creating these arbitrary income targets. So it’s like folks say, oh yeah, I need to have a seven determine enterprise. Okay, the place did that quantity come from? Is it simply because different folks say it or no matter? Like, or they’ll say, oh yeah, I need to have, you understand, make $10 million a 12 months. Okay, why? Like, the place did that quantity come from?
Preston (36:52.774)
Yeah.
Clay (37:10.654)
So their large factor is like, so long as you’re rising each single 12 months over 12 months, like what does it matter? It doesn’t. Like, you don’t must, you don’t must set this objective, this very finite quantity as a result of in case you go from like, so for instance, my first 12 months as a freelancer, I made, my objective was $100,000. I made $97,000.
Preston (37:18.318)
Yeah.
Clay (37:39.826)
I used to be not very pleased as a result of I missed it by three grand, however first 12 months as a contract, that’s fairly good. After which my second 12 months, I don’t bear in mind what my precise income was, however my second 12 months, I feel I did like $340,000 in income. I bear in mind my third 12 months although as a result of I had a objective of, okay, I’m going to make $500,000.
Dude, we did like $488,000. However the level right here is that, oh, after which the fourth 12 months, we needed to make 1,000,000. I feel we technically made $998,000. I do know, like, so my level right here is that I miss the mark each single 12 months, quote unquote, in accordance with these arbitrary numbers I put aside. However in case you take a look at the truth, I grew by over…
Preston (38:23.038)
Clay, you’re such a failure. Yeah.
Travis (38:24.811)
Hahaha
Clay (38:37.426)
what, 300% from 12 months one to 12 months two, nearly 100% from 12 months two to 12 months three, and 100% from 12 months three to 12 months 4. Like, folks would freaking kill for these numbers. So like setting these arbitrary numbers, it’s simply, it messes together with your thoughts. And that’s how burnout occurs, proper?
Preston (38:49.594)
Yeah.
Preston (39:01.074)
So only for context actually fast, the 2 books are known as Rework and it doesn’t must be loopy at work. And each extremely advisable, I’ve learn them each, they’re so good, I’ve learn Rework a few instances. Yeah, like the quilt for it doesn’t must be loopy at work, it has a giant crimson X with phrases like this behind it. 80 hour weeks, packed schedules, tremendous busy, infinite conferences, overflowing inbox, unrealistic deadlines, can’t sleep.
Sunday afternoon emails, it’s like, no, all these things that we imagine this hustle tradition has taught us we have now to do, we don’t have to try this. And, um, these guys are like dwelling it. They’re constructing their enterprise base camp on these rules and so they’re doing rather well. Proper. And so it’s actually a few inspiring books, extremely, extremely suggest. I feel that’s 4 books we’ve given you now to learn Travis and listeners, however, um, positively some good ones. Yeah. What else is in your thoughts, Travis? Anything?
Travis (39:48.001)
We’ve bought some gentle studying to do.
Travis (39:53.109)
Yeah, no, I imply, actually, that was an excellent transition as a result of I feel on the subject of progress and scaling and issues like that, I do know you guys speak about scaling rather a lot. I listened to some of the earlier episodes when of us had questions on scaling. I feel mine is likely to be just a little bit extra nuanced relating to scaling, however it’s actually understanding possibly alerts of when you can be capable of scale. So like, for instance,
when would you understand that you’ll be able to rent like a subcontractor? Is there like a sure monetary benchmark? Must you develop extremely sluggish if that’s the one method you’ll be able to develop and plan and set expectations to take action? So like say if I solely had 10 hours of labor a month to present to a subcontractor, is that helpful simply because I’m not less than rising at some tempo?
Preston (40:26.799)
Yeah.
Preston (40:42.814)
Hmm, that is so humorous as a result of we simply talked to Zach about this, for listeners final week for us an hour in the past, we have been speaking to Zach about this and yeah, he had the identical query. He’s like, what comes first? Do I get the massive shoppers to fund hiring folks or do I rent folks to dump my workload in order that I can then discover the massive shoppers, proper? And so very, very related query. What we instructed Zach and possibly we’ll, I imply, we’ll tailor the query just a little bit understanding your scenario, however.
Travis (40:46.506)
Hahaha.
Clay (40:48.676)
Hmm.
Travis (41:04.793)
Precisely.
Preston (41:12.55)
However in my thoughts, to reply your query about like, properly, ought to I simply do 10 hours per week simply because I can? Sure, I feel so. As a result of what you’re doing is all the pieces has a chance price, proper? And so these 10 hours, sure, you can do the work or you can pay somebody to do the work after which you can exit and discover two extra shoppers in these 10 hours or no matter, you understand, no matter it equates to in your corporation. And so each time you tackle work, whether or not it’s administrative work or deliverable work,
billable work, no matter you need to name it, all the pieces you say sure to is a chance price in your corporation, proper? The place you’re doing 99% of all of the issues in your corporation or possibly 100% at this level, all the pieces is a chance price. And so my opinion is sure, in case you can afford to rent somebody even for 10 hours per week or 10 hours a month, if it’s one thing that might unlock time for you to make more cash or develop the enterprise in different methods to attain, once more,
coming again to this concept of prefer it’s not all about cash proper cash’s not the tip all be all but when it will show you how to obtain the targets that you simply need to in your corporation no matter these are then sure 100 it’s price that funding.
Preston (42:25.85)
Mic drop, I suppose. Clay, do you will have something so as to add on that?
Travis (42:26.937)
Hahaha
Clay (42:29.733)
Yeah, one second
Preston (42:32.646)
One thing loopy is occurring, Klaze. I don’t know, does that resonate with you, Travis? What do you suppose? Yeah.
Clay (42:35.637)
Okay.
Travis (42:37.325)
It’s the following storm. Um, yeah, no, I positively agree. Like I feel when, like even the idea of progress, like for me, talking personally, and I’m certain different folks would most likely really feel the identical method as somebody nonetheless comparatively new, like I’m solely on this for 5 months. Like the concept of progress and bringing on another person is like, I’m simply attempting to maintain myself afloat and pay my payments. However I feel…
Clay (42:38.983)
Yeah.
Travis (43:06.681)
there’s gotta be some kind of mentality shift by way of understanding that form of alternative, the out there alternative the place I may put in some extra time or give another person the time to do it and create like form of exponential alternative, proper? I feel it’s nonetheless wrapping my head round that as a result of I’m simply so like course of and operation pushed that I’ve not thought of what that may seem like. And possibly there’s gotta be some kind of
understanding on my finish even from a monetary perspective of like what that what that appears like
Preston (43:39.13)
Yeah, and we talked about this with Zach too, which is the great factor is in case you begin with contractors or subcontractors, you’ll be able to all the time ease off, proper? Should you pay somebody a pair thousand bucks this month and also you’re like, whoa, that was not price that funding, then subsequent month you say, hey, sorry, we gotta push pause on this for a minute or no matter. Like versus hiring an worker, which it’s like, I’m hiring you for $60,000 a 12 months and.
Clay (43:39.86)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (44:06.086)
We’re obligated to one another, and it’s this entire large deal. You possibly can simply rent freelancers to assist the place it really makes an influence in your corporation. And then you definately could be very selective about, OK, I feel if I spend $1,000 right here or $500 there, that’s going to truly unlock my time or generate extra income or no matter and assist me obtain the targets that I’ve in my enterprise.
Clay (44:26.314)
Okay, so I’ve some ideas. Lastly. Sorry, I had a distraction. I had a distraction over right here. Okay, so I’m going to say one thing. I don’t suppose I’ve ever stated on a podcast. I feel sluggish, wholesome progress is precedence first. So right here’s what I imply by that. I feel folks get so caught up in, oh, when can I rent any individual so I can tackle extra shoppers?
Preston (44:28.134)
Sure, go.
Travis (44:30.681)
Hahaha
Preston (44:45.624)
I agree.
Clay (44:56.15)
I feel the mentality wants to vary first. I feel the mentality must be, if I, so Travis, in case you had the mentality of I’m solely going to get 100 shoppers, proper? Not 100 lively shoppers. I imply such as you solely can tackle 100 shoppers whether or not they depart you or not.
Simply 100, in order quickly because the one centesimal particular person purchases from you, that’s the place you’ll be able to not take shoppers. How would your service and your work change? So folks can be like, oh, I’m gonna be certain that my service is prime notch, proper, as a result of I have to guarantee that I can preserve all 100 of these shoppers. To me, that’s the mentality that
must occur first is act like you’re solely capable of tackle 100 shoppers whole.
Clay (46:01.956)
After which refine that course of, get your work, your high quality up tremendous, tremendous prime notch. After which at that time you’ll be able to take a look at hiring any individual.
Travis (46:15.453)
Yeah, I feel that’s a very good level as a result of I feel, prefer it’s humorous you talked about that, as a result of one among my subsequent questions was like, how would I put together my shoppers for onboarding one other contractor or one thing like that, and doubtlessly sacrifice high quality? As a result of that’s one thing that I’m, I maintain myself to a really excessive commonplace, and I guarantee that what I ship is like me 100%, and there’s like no sacrificing that.
Clay (46:29.634)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (46:42.662)
Mm-hmm.
Travis (46:44.813)
And if I’m attempting to hurry to get somebody within the door only for the sake of progress, and I’m doubtlessly sacrificing that high quality, I’ve fully misplaced the plot then.
Clay (46:53.214)
Yep. I want any individual had instructed me this after I first began my company as a result of we grew tremendous, tremendous quick. I imply, tremendous quick, however our high quality sacrificed. We fastened it, however I want we had not grown as quick as we did. Yeah.
Preston (46:54.566)
Yeah.
Preston (47:06.802)
It’s suffered.
Preston (47:13.742)
I’ve yeah, I’ve had the identical expertise the place you rent as a result of it does unlock your time, however you don’t, however, however then you definately, you possibly haven’t employed properly sufficient or, otherwise you haven’t taught properly sufficient to the place your high quality stays the place it must be. So then it’s important to form of go backwards and both let folks go discover new folks or it’s important to retrain, which is difficult. And so yeah, it turns into actually difficult. I’m with Clay. I, I’m, I’m a really sluggish progress form of man. I imply, I’ve been doing.
Clay (47:27.67)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (47:41.55)
my enterprise both on the aspect or full time since 2008. And we have now 4 folks, relying on the time of 12 months, 4 to 6 folks on the crew. I imply, we aren’t a giant firm and I’m kind of intentional about that, proper? I don’t wanna spend most of my working hours managing a crew of fifty folks, in order that’s a part of it. However yeah, I want to develop. It’s so humorous, these tech startups, they’ll speak about progress by way of how many individuals they’ve employed, proper? And it’s like, properly, no.
What in case you employed fewer folks and made more cash? That’s an actual profitable enterprise in my thoughts. We’ve elevated income yearly, not less than since I took it full time, and we have now not elevated personnel. So one thing’s actually working there. Yeah, yeah, that’s proper. Does that assist, Travis?
Clay (48:15.606)
Yep.
Travis (48:25.145)
Hm.
Clay (48:25.389)
That’s scaling. Yep, that’s scaling.
Travis (48:30.005)
That’s actually fascinating. Yeah, 100%. I feel it’s coming from my perspective, if you hear the phrases like progress and scaling, you routinely suppose that the greenback quantity ought to be proportional to the personnel quantity, proper? When that’s not all the time the case, I feel it’s such as you have been saying, with the ability to do it in a method that’s good and really works for you, but additionally meets your values.
Preston (48:47.03)
Mm, yeah.
Travis (48:57.149)
That can also be scaling too. I imply, clearly the profit is extra financially with too, but when it doesn’t meet up with all the pieces else, then what’s the purpose?
Preston (49:06.362)
Yeah, yeah, I feel it looks like all the pieces we’re speaking about at present comes full circle to that concept of like, what do you actually care about? What’s actually necessary in your corporation? Cash after all is necessary in any enterprise, proper? However apart from cash, what else do you care about? Proper? What sort of enterprise do you need to be working? Do you need to be managing a crew of 10 or 20 or 30 or 50 or 100 folks? Or do you need to be managing a crew of two or three folks? Or do you simply need to work for your self? Prefer it simply relies upon a lot. Once more, coming again to Clay’s reply, it relies upon, proper? And that’s exhausting. However um…
Travis (49:14.062)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (49:35.454)
however it simply depends upon what you really need out of your corporation. And I feel, you understand, getting the readability on what you really need out of working for your self is a very large deal. And a few folks skip that step and so they let different folks resolve what success appears to be like like of their enterprise. And if you let different folks try this, then you definately succumb to this hustle tradition or this fashion too laid again tradition or no matter it is likely to be. And that may be actually harmful. And so I feel, yeah, I feel…
You’re within the excellent place within the age of your corporation to now say like, and it seems like you have already got an thought, Travis, of what your imaginative and prescient is on your life and your corporation. However you may get a lot readability on that. And I feel that’ll simply drive the selections you make as you progress ahead.
Travis (50:20.117)
Yeah, completely. And I feel coming again to the, even the entire thought of the podcast of like the place you’re in freelance to founder, like I’ve very clearly made the choice that I need to develop my enterprise, however how that appears, I feel that’s one thing I by no means even actually thought of beforehand. It’s similar to, you both have one or you will have the opposite. So moving into the nuance, yeah, essential.
Preston (50:39.67)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nicely, it’s been plenty of enjoyable chatting with you, catching up with you, listening to about your corporation. You’ve had some actually distinctive questions at present. Thanks a lot for becoming a member of us on the present. Travis, will you remind folks yet another time the place they will discover you in the event that they need to work with you or community with you or no matter?
Travis (50:55.893)
Yeah, completely. So my enterprise is Travis Boyko Inventive. You could find me at travisboyko.com or in case you wanna shoot me an e mail, it’s simply travis at travisboyko.com.
Preston (51:06.046)
Excellent. And if anybody continues to be listening an hour later into this dialog, in case you’re having as a lot enjoyable as we have now, I’ve stated just a few instances, Travis’s web site, his portfolio website, his web site, is strictly what you ought to be doing as a freelancer to truly convert website guests into paying shoppers. He’s simply performed, not solely is he a gifted designer, which is after all necessary, however he’s pondering the suitable method about calls to motion, about tips on how to attain out, about showcasing work, about speaking about himself.
about speaking about his shoppers. He’s simply doing all of it actually, rather well. So take a look at his web site. We’ll you should definitely hyperlink to that within the present notes as properly, however travisboyko.com. Travis, thanks once more, man, for coming again on the present. It’s been an actual pleasure. And Clay Mosley from GitDripify. I’ve been Preston from milo.co, and we’ll all speak to you later. See ya.
Clay (51:51.954)
See ya!
Preston (51:57.158)
Alright, let’s hang around for only a minute as issues hopefully add. Uh, possibly.
Travis (52:01.849)
Superior.
Preston (52:04.99)
Please don’t lose that dialog.
Travis (52:06.885)
Hahaha