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Thursday, June 20, 2024

Can You Actually Belief Different Freelancers to Ship? — Millo.co


Preston (00:01.479)
Hiya and welcome again to a different episode of Freelance 2 Founder. My identify is Preston Lee with Millo.co and becoming a member of me on the air in the present day is my good friend Clay Mosley from GetDripify.com. Hey Clay, the way you doing man?

Clay Mosley (00:12.45)
Hiya, whats up. Doing good, man. I’m excited for 2024 podcasting season.

Preston (00:21.023)
That’s proper, we’re simply getting began with 2024. By the point this airs, we’ll be just a few weeks into it, nevertheless it simply feels good to be again chatting with you. I missed you. And it’s simply enjoyable. How’s, do you could have snow down in Texas as of late?

Clay Mosley (00:30.954)
Hahaha!

Clay Mosley (00:35.926)
Uh, no, I’m, it’s like 70 levels.

Preston (00:39.375)
Oh my gosh, I’m so jealous of you. We acquired like 9 inches of snow yesterday, randomly out of nowhere. Like I pulled out of my storage to go to church and didn’t even actually realize it had snowed and rapidly I’m driving via like 9 inches of snow. It was nuts. Nicely, we acquired loads of it. Come on up. We acquired a visitor room you possibly can keep in and loads of snow. So additionally becoming a member of us in the present day, most likely is aware of somewhat bit extra about snow is my visitor is Tina. Hello, Tina.

Clay Mosley (00:45.626)
I need the snow

Clay Mosley (00:55.682)
I need extra of that. I need that.

Clay Mosley (01:02.996)
Hehehehe

Tina Zegel (01:09.393)
Hello, thanks for having me on the present.

Preston (01:12.035)
Completely calling in from Minnesota, proper? Yeah, snow up there? What?

Tina Zegel (01:14.609)
Sure, Minnesota. Hardly. It’s very uncommon. All people’s scratching their heads, questioning the place it’s.

Preston (01:21.579)
Yeah, as a result of often you could have a bunch, proper? Yeah

Tina Zegel (01:23.609)
Yep, yeah, individuals are ready to get on the ice to do every kind of issues and it’s not taking place.

Preston (01:27.827)
Yeah, yeah, properly, world warming and all that, whether or not you imagine it in or not, I don’t know. However for some cause, we’ve had a reasonably dry season too. Anyway, that’s fairly boring. So we’re going to maneuver on. Tina, why don’t you inform us somewhat bit about and that was my fault. It’s boring. Not your fault, Tina. Tina, inform us about your corporation. Save me from this terrible section I’m doing right here.

Tina Zegel (01:32.622)
Thanks.

Tina Zegel (01:40.789)
I’m going to go forward and switch it off.

Tina Zegel (01:47.628)
Hahaha

Clay Mosley (01:48.599)
I used to be gonna allow you to preserve going.

Preston (01:52.359)
Tina, why don’t you save me? Inform me, inform us somewhat bit about your corporation, what you’re engaged on, the companies you present, how lengthy you’ve been in enterprise. Simply form of paint an image for us.

Tina Zegel (01:59.957)
Certain. So I’ve been working independently as a graphic designer and a meals and product photographer for eight years. And previous to that, I truly did the maths earlier than this name as a result of wow, I’ve truly been doing this for longer than I spotted. I’ve been doing this for 17 years. And I began working for pure meat corporations 17 years in the past, and labored for them for fairly just a few years after which went out alone.

Preston (02:10.264)
Oh cool.

Tina Zegel (02:29.893)
eight years in the past. And since going alone, I did that once I had two younger kids. So I’ve, by design, deliberately stored my enterprise small. And it’s labored actually, rather well as a result of I really like what I do and I could make some first rate revenue alone schedule from my own residence.

And but I’ve been holding this pressure for eight years, like when am I going to develop and the way am I going to do it? And I spend a lot time occupied with it and questioning about it. After which just lately, I had this realization as a result of I’ve so many desires which might be on maintain on a shelf, like simply build up for the at some point once I lastly resolve that it’s time. And the explanation it’s not time but is as a result of the best way that I select to teach my kids, I homeschool them.

Preston (03:05.331)
Hmm.

Tina Zegel (03:28.281)
Um, and at some point which will change or at some point they might become older the place I’m simply much less concerned in a everyday. Yeah. So I’ve simply been holding this query actually for eight years as a result of I really like what I do. I really like my job. It fills me up. I’d truly do it and receives a commission nothing. So it’s a very nice bonus that I make a pleasant revenue doing what I really like.

Preston (03:35.731)
Assured they’ll become older. Yeah.

Tina Zegel (03:57.753)
Um, after which anyway, a pair months in the past, I used to be listening to the podcast and I believed, right here I’m having this concept in my thoughts that sometime I’m going to attempt to get a training name with Preston and Clay. After which it dawned on me, they may change their minds at some point. They may, you understand, have a profession change and resolve their podcasts over. What am I ready for? So I simply, I actually need to decide your brains as a result of I don’t know if it’s going to be.

Clay Mosley (04:20.695)
Ha ha ha.

Tina Zegel (04:26.053)
in three months or six months or two years, however I actually have plenty of confusion about the way to develop as a result of I undoubtedly, I work in a silo. I’m not, I’m not an company in any respect. It’s simply me. I’ve been quietly doing my factor for eight years and loving it, nevertheless it doesn’t ever change. It’s simply the identical factor for eight years.

Preston (04:54.427)
I really like the way you’ve put it although. Like we talked to so many people who find themselves like, oh, I’ve been, you understand, working a day job for, and I used to be this, proper? I’ve been working a day job for eight years, doing stuff on the aspect of pondering like at some point, at some point I’m gonna, you understand, some magic one thing’s gonna occur or I’m gonna construct up the nerve or no matter. Someday, at some point, at some point. And I did that for therefore a few years. And I really like that you just’re mentioning this level, which I’ll suppose plenty of freelancers face, which is like, issues are good. Issues are adequate, proper? And

Tina Zegel (05:12.638)
and

Preston (05:23.731)
However there’s one thing perhaps behind your thoughts, one thing deep down going like, oh, may there be extra? May there be extra to operating my very own enterprise? Would I’ve extra enjoyable or make more cash or no matter and nonetheless be capable to perhaps have the approach to life with my household that I need, homeschool my youngsters, no matter that your priorities are. So I really like that you just introduced that up as a result of I believe that occurs to all of us in a technique or one other.

Tina Zegel (05:48.581)
Yeah, I simply, the limbo is odd. I by no means thought, properly, in so some ways, life shouldn’t be what we predict it’s after we get to the subsequent season. However I’ve been holding this query for therefore lengthy and I’m like, I don’t wanna wait one other eight years. I don’t even know if I wanna wait one other yr. I wanna discover out and I actually wanna take a look at the waters with what’s it even like to rent anyone? I’d resolve I hate it, however I don’t like not understanding. I actually wanna strive it.

Preston (06:07.283)
Yeah.

Tina Zegel (06:18.201)
And I hear you guys speak so much about hiring folks. Ought to I rent folks? As a result of some folks select to not. Some folks select to only keep impartial. However I assume in my thoughts, I can’t even image how to try this logistically and the way to try this in a means that’s not likely excessive threat. As a result of I assume I really feel like one of many, I’m not a designer that thinks.

Um, I don’t maintain a perception that there’s not one other designer that may do good work. I’m properly conscious there are many designers that do work so much, like even stronger than my work. I simply have this concern of them not delivering and likewise delivering. Possibly on time. So then what do I do to speak to my consumer? As a result of I’ve a very good monitor report of understanding what I can get completed.

when and once I can get it completed. And so I believe that’s my huge concern. I do know that there’s succesful designers and I believe my concern is that they gained’t ship on time after which what do I do? I form of again myself right into a nook.

Preston (07:34.703)
Yeah, okay, that’s a troublesome one. And I really like that you just carry that up. I believe that is one thing we don’t speak so much about after we discuss hiring and that’s, and Clay and I’ve confronted this ourselves, proper? And that’s that you just rent somebody and so they don’t ship or they ship late or their high quality is means decrease than what you thought it was gonna be. And that may be a actual problem. And simply to carry everybody up to the mark shortly too, you set in your survey as you ready for the present.

Clay Mosley (07:44.423)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (08:03.123)
And if you happen to wanna come on the present, if you happen to’re apprehensive that Clay and I are gonna cease podcasting subsequent month, additionally, which we’re not, however we might like to have you ever as quickly as attainable. I really like that Tina, you simply have been like, you understand what, I’m simply gonna do it. And we’d like to have you ever listener on the present as properly. You simply go to free and also you scroll to the underside of the web page, you fill out a fast questionnaire. On that questionnaire, one of many questions is, on a scale of 1 to 10, one being a freelancer, 10 being a founder, the place would you set your self?

Clay Mosley (08:07.416)
Hahaha

Preston (08:30.667)
and the place do you need to be, proper? And you set that you just’re at the moment at a two, you’d wish to be at a 4. And to me, yeah, one of many huge differentiators between a two and a 4 is you’ve employed somebody, even when it’s only a contractor, proper? It doesn’t should be a full-time worker. And so I really like that you just’ve introduced up this concern, which is like, how do I do know I can depend on anyone? And we’ve talked about, such as you mentioned on the present, to suppose that you just’re the one designer that may do properly at design is form of…

ridiculous in a means, proper? And so I’m glad that’s not the problem. The difficulty is how do I do know somebody’s gonna ship and in the event that they don’t, what do I do to keep up consumer relationship? So I’ve some concepts, however Clay, is something bouncing round in your thoughts as you hear a number of the considerations that Tina’s mentioning?

Clay Mosley (09:11.177)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (09:16.43)
Yeah, so I can inform you proper now hiring your first particular person is essentially the most is essentially the most nerve wracking factor. The primary rent is all the time the yeah it’s the hardest one. It will get means simpler after that, however the very first one is hard as a result of I keep in mind, I keep in mind the primary time I employed anyone and

Preston (09:30.631)
Yeah, that first one’s powerful.

Clay Mosley (09:45.274)
I used to be in a, financially I used to be able the place that first particular person was getting paid greater than me. You already know? And that’s simply, that’s simply the truth of startup. You already know, it’s such as you put your a refund into, I’m not saying that is going to be true for you, Tina. However my level is, is I used to be tremendous, tremendous nervous about it. I’m going to form of burst your bubble right here somewhat bit.

Preston (09:54.159)
Yep

Clay Mosley (10:10.05)
You don’t the query is how are you aware they’re going to have the ability to ship you actually don’t know till you truly rent them Now I’ll say this Yeah, I’ll say this although as a result of I’ve i’ve had i’ve employed a many individuals um each as w2 workers, um, and as contractors like most likely not less than Whole hires most likely not less than 4 dozen

Tina Zegel (10:18.037)
Nothing to be pleased with, hoping for.

Clay Mosley (10:38.71)
within the final eight years, there are issues that you could put in place to reduce the affect it is going to have on your corporation to not less than strive them out. So to reply your query, you’re not going to know till you set them to the take a look at, however you possibly can run them via, I don’t know, principally a gauntlet, principally what I name it to see in the event that they’re going to suit.

Preston (11:06.427)
Yeah, I agree with that. I’m a agency believer that it’s not okay to get free work through the utility course of, however I believe there’s alternative the place you may pay somebody on a one-off challenge, proper? So like, let’s say you could have a challenge, Tina, that has loads of runway. Possibly the subsequent time a consumer involves you and says, I need this and this completed, you bid it out, however you give them a timeline that’s perhaps twice so long as you’ll usually take.

Clay Mosley (11:13.506)
quickly.

Preston (11:33.999)
And you then discover a contractor that you just rent only for that challenge, proper? It’s not a long-term association, it’s not everlasting, there’s very low threat, and also you rent them for this one challenge, and perhaps you discover them via a market or via your community or one thing like that, proper? And also you simply rent them one-off. And you could even give them the majority of the fee of that one challenge simply to expedite the entire course of, proper? And you then give them a deadline.

Tina Zegel (11:59.285)
Thanks.

Preston (12:02.619)
And you then see how they reply. And since you’ve given your self a very lengthy timeline on this singular challenge, then worst case state of affairs, in the event that they don’t ship on time, you possibly can both take a late challenge from them and nonetheless ship to your consumer on time, or you may step in and simply do the challenge. Sure, it is perhaps a ache, however that might be once more, worst case state of affairs, proper? Ideally, center case state of affairs, they’re like just a few days late or one thing, after which excellent case state of affairs, they ship on time. And so,

Tina Zegel (12:20.169)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (12:23.633)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (12:31.023)
I believe you can begin actually small. Typically we predict we use the phrase hiring and it’s like, properly, I gotta discover somebody who’s gonna be completely on my staff. Virtually everybody that I’ve employed on my staff, I began with like a one-off challenge first. Nicely, that’s not true now, however I’d say early on I did. And it was like, are you able to write an article for the web site or are you able to design this factor or are you able to develop this plan or are you able to give you concepts for XYZ? And I simply paid them for one challenge.

After which I acquired an concept of how they really work, how they convey, once they ship, all of these questions you could have which might be a black field proper now, all of them turn out to be very, very clear in working with that particular person on a one-off challenge. After which if that goes properly, and you’ll even say to them upfront, if this goes properly, I’ve, you understand, I’d love to determine a long-term factor, however I wanna ensure that it really works out properly for each of us earlier than we decide to one thing, you understand, extra in depth. Yeah.

Clay Mosley (13:24.042)
Yeah, be clear about that.

Tina Zegel (13:27.593)
That is sensible, thanks. So it seems like I’m simply really want to construct in buffers for the simply in case they don’t ship.

Preston (13:38.011)
Yeah, I believe that may be useful at first. And you then’ll begin to get a really feel for like, and it’ll, trigger it is going to additionally take longer naturally as a result of there’s further communication taking place, proper? So that you do need to construct in a security internet so that you just’re not over promising to your purchasers after which underneath delivering by lacking deadlines.

Clay Mosley (13:38.207)
Yeah.

Tina Zegel (13:48.402)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (13:56.295)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (13:56.462)
However you need to try this anyway, even if you happen to have been doing it by yourself, you understand?

Tina Zegel (14:00.901)
Proper, yeah, I believe I try this to some extent, however I do…

Tina Zegel (14:09.873)
I don’t know, one way or the other it simply appears to work out. I do have some fairly tight deadlines and massive guarantees to my purchasers with somewhat little bit of buffer, however I’d most likely should double or triple it if I have been delegating, even when you concentrate on the time that it takes to delegate and talk.

Clay Mosley (14:31.531)
your typical challenge.

Tina Zegel (14:33.533)
So I forgot to say, I solely work for pure meals manufacturers. So I stay in a really area of interest market, which I really like. So my tasks may very well be anyplace from a brand new brand or model identification, which to be trustworthy, that doesn’t occur fairly often as a result of I solely have just a few purchasers. So I extra frequently construct issues like meals labels, packages, brochures.

Um, I-

Clay Mosley (15:04.198)
Okay, let’s take a meals label. How lengthy does its meals label challenge take?

Tina Zegel (15:11.721)
Um, it may take anyplace from 10 minutes to many hours, actually. I did.

Clay Mosley (15:13.055)
on common.

Preston (15:19.315)
However from the time, from the time, yeah. Like from the time that the consumer agrees to do the challenge till you ship it, is {that a} week, a few days?

Clay Mosley (15:19.37)
Nicely, from a calendar timeline.

Tina Zegel (15:28.377)
Okay, so I do know you guys most likely need a straightforward reply on this, however I actually solely have just a few purchasers. And I virtually simply form of merge myself into as a member of their staff. And once I first begin working with them, once I first begin working with a consumer, I ship them challenge estimates. After which I transfer away from that after they belief me. And I simply cost them all the things they ship me.

Preston (15:32.935)
Hahaha

Preston (15:40.765)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (15:56.921)
I inform them once I suppose I’ll be capable to get it completed, after which I cost by the hour.

Clay Mosley (16:03.463)
Okay, so…

Tina Zegel (16:04.057)
So actually they may, they might ship me a challenge that takes me 10 minutes, or they might ship me a challenge that takes 40 hours.

Clay Mosley (16:12.706)
Let me construct a hypothetical scenario. I’m a consumer that I already belief you. And I mentioned, I want a label for this meals product. Right here’s my cash, growth, I paid you. How lengthy will it take? I’m asking as a consumer on this hypothetical scenario. How lengthy will or not it’s? What’s the supply time?

Tina Zegel (16:15.321)
Okay.

Tina Zegel (16:34.921)
Yeah. So let’s see.

Tina Zegel (16:41.269)
So I’d inform them it’s gonna take me two weeks.

Clay Mosley (16:44.93)
Two weeks, okay. So if you happen to have been to rent anyone that can assist you with this, I don’t know, and this is rather like, I’m simply going off and perhaps Preston can chime in right here, however I’m simply basing this off of my expertise with hiring somebody and dealing with them. I don’t suppose it’s gonna double or triple your time. I actually don’t.

Preston (17:12.796)
I agree with that. Yeah.

Clay Mosley (17:13.934)
I believe it’s going to perhaps, I’d add in 20, 25% extra, for my part.

So as an alternative of two weeks, perhaps you may perhaps make it like two and a half weeks.

Tina Zegel (17:23.631)
Okay.

Preston (17:34.715)
I agree, and I believe if you happen to’re actually, actually apprehensive a few freelancer delivering, I referenced what we discuss typically on the present and I believe you referenced it as properly, Tina, and that’s wish to suppose that you just’re the one particular person that may try this work is simply, it doesn’t make any sense, proper? There’s so many proficient folks. And so that you acknowledge that. I believe it’s additionally necessary to acknowledge there are such a lot of individuals who can ship.

Clay Mosley (17:52.12)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (18:01.759)
good high quality tasks on time and so they do and so they make a residing doing that identical to you do, proper?

Tina Zegel (18:07.162)
I believe it perhaps doesn’t appear actual to me as a result of I’ve by no means completed it.

Preston (18:11.668)
Mm. Yeah.

Clay Mosley (18:11.818)
Let me inform you, let me inform you, let me inform you what’s gonna occur. Um, you’ll, you will see some those that mo as you rent folks. I simply need to set expectations. They are going to do. Most of them will do about 80% pretty much as good as you’ll.

Preston (18:31.548)
Yeah, that’s proper.

Clay Mosley (18:32.866)
A great one. So I need to set that expectation with you as a result of if you happen to’re anticipating 100% pretty much as good as you, that’s uncommon. That’s uncommon. They don’t care. Yeah. They are going to do about 70, 80% pretty much as good as you. You’ll although, as you get into this and also you continue to grow, you want extra folks, what is going to occur is you will see anyone who’s higher than you.

Preston (18:40.767)
They don’t care as a lot as you. It’s not their enterprise, proper?

Tina Zegel (18:43.837)
Yeah.

Tina Zegel (18:48.302)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (19:01.073)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (19:02.134)
which is superior, proper?

Tina Zegel (19:04.121)
and doesn’t need to be operating a enterprise. They simply need to be doing design, after which they’re keen to work for anyone else.

Clay Mosley (19:07.378)
Yeah.

Preston (19:08.239)
Yep.

Clay Mosley (19:11.63)
Uh-huh. However I’m simply going to inform you, I simply needed to present you that expectation that almost all of them, they’re going to do 70 to 80 p.c pretty much as good as you.

Tina Zegel (19:20.611)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (19:22.507)
The opposite factor I’d add too is like through the interview course of, as you’re vetting folks, it’s completely acceptable so that you can say, I’ve a zero tolerance coverage on late tasks is how do you’re feeling about that? Proper? Like, like if, if you happen to flip one thing in late, we’re not going to have the ability to work collectively on one other challenge. That’ll be the top of it. So I imply, that’s a really laborious line within the sand, proper? But when it’s that necessary to you, it’s okay to carry that up. And

Tina Zegel (19:35.201)
Okay.

Tina Zegel (19:45.99)
Thanks.

Tina Zegel (19:49.617)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (19:50.511)
And also you may in actual life be extra lenient, proper? However getting their response to one thing like that’s necessary. If they are saying, oh, no drawback, I really feel the identical means. I hate it when issues are late and I’m all the time on time and my purchasers love that I ship early and da da, proper? Then sure, it may very well be lip service, proper? They may very well be making it up, however I believe you possibly can not less than get a way of how they reply to one thing.

Tina Zegel (19:53.362)
Thanks.

Tina Zegel (20:06.555)
Yep.

Tina Zegel (20:16.526)
Yeah, thanks for that. That is sensible. It’s attention-grabbing. I’m occupied with this constructing in a buffer to reduce the danger of hiring anyone. However it seems like ideally if you happen to discover the proper particular person, if something, it ought to go quicker, proper? As a result of there’s considered one of me.

Clay Mosley (20:32.81)
It ought to go quicker. Yeah.

Yeah, it ought to go quicker. However initially, once you’re looking for the proper particular person, I believe it’s good to construct about 20% extra.

Tina Zegel (20:48.038)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (20:48.842)
As a result of, I imply, you may undergo one, two, three, 5 folks earlier than you discover somebody that’s like a proper match.

Tina Zegel (20:53.493)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Preston (20:56.911)
Yeah, I believe for me that buffer concept was extra like on this instance of discover a one off challenge, discover a one off freelancer, give it a take a look at journey. Trigger you’re additionally going to study issues about your self, Tina, about the way you handle, the way you talk, belongings you didn’t learn about that course of, belongings you weren’t anticipating about that course of, proper? You discover somebody in a distinct time zone and rapidly you notice like communication shouldn’t be as instantaneous, proper? I’ve somebody on my staff who works in Pakistan and he does an excellent job.

However there are typically once I’m like, I want this factor urgently and it’s like, oh, it’s 2 a.m. proper now. I’m not gonna wake him as much as resolve this drawback, proper? So, you understand, there’s gonna be issues that come up and so I believe significantly on that first run, you wanna construct in, I’d construct in somewhat bit greater than 20 or 25% on that first one simply to find out how issues work. After which as you get higher at it, you possibly can form of carry that buffer down. After which in some unspecified time in the future, such as you mentioned, you could not want a buffer anymore, proper? It would truly occur extra shortly.

Tina Zegel (21:50.869)
Mm-hmm. So I’ve one other query. Is that this time for it? OK. I additionally hear you speak on the present about not apologizing to your purchasers that you’ve a staff and that you just’re not simply an impartial. And I perceive that. And I’d undoubtedly, over time, need to talk to my purchasers that I’m, in actual fact, working with different folks. And I do have already got it written into my contracts with my purchasers. They’ve signed on the dotted line.

Preston (21:56.033)
Sure, let’s do it.

Tina Zegel (22:20.881)
about that I’d rent anyone, however all of them know that I actually haven’t. And so I’m curious in case you have an opinion on once I rent anyone, say it’s a subcontractor, and I’m simply testing the waters with them. Do you’re feeling like it could be a good suggestion to really wait to inform my purchasers, like, wait till I’m not simply testing the waters and I really feel like that is actually working?

And now I actually am going to do that after which talk to them that.

Clay Mosley (22:54.526)
I’d wait. I’d wait. Nicely, okay. So at any time when I say I’d wait, I everytime you’re you are attempting anyone out, I contemplate it as a trial interval. They’re not truly somebody who you’re going not less than at that time not they’re not somebody who you’ll use frequently. Now you possibly can Out of your consumer’s perspective, you’re engaged on it proper

Tina Zegel (23:04.83)
Yeah.

Tina Zegel (23:15.551)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (23:23.446)
However out of your perspective internally behind the scenes, you’re working with this different particular person. And I personally don’t suppose that’s unethical since you’re nonetheless managing the challenge. However if you happen to get to the purpose the place like, you’ve gone via this trial interval with this particular person, okay, you’ve gone via two, three, 4 different tasks with this particular person, okay, now it’s fairly stable that, okay, I’m gonna preserve working with this particular person.

Tina Zegel (23:35.06)
Sure.

Clay Mosley (23:52.446)
At that time, you may do an introduction to your purchasers and say, hey, let’s welcome so-and-so to the staff. That’s what I’d do.

Tina Zegel (24:04.085)
Mm-hmm. Okay. I believe it feels odd to me as a result of a few of my purchasers I’ve been working with for like 15 years. And so I get the entire thing about, it may very well be a very good thing, it may even work out higher for them if I’ve anyone else on my aspect. It simply feels odd to me to be working behind the scenes to not simply be one particular person after which.

I don’t know, as a result of it’s not only a, they’re not only a enterprise consumer, you understand, I’ve recognized them for 15 years. And I’m additionally able the place I wish to be, which is I’ve just a few purchasers and that’s the place I need to be. And I, it’s actually beautiful as a result of I really like all my purchasers and I’ve had different folks attain out to me and ask for work. And I simply get to say no and never really feel dangerous about it. So I actually, actually love that I get to decide on my purchasers.

Clay Mosley (24:38.691)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (25:02.577)
as a result of…

Clay Mosley (25:05.11)
Nicely, let’s discuss why does it really feel odd to you?

Tina Zegel (25:10.426)
Um, I assume it feels somewhat disingenuous, like, as a result of I’m a reasonably open e book simply usually about my, about myself and the best way I do enterprise and I don’t know, it simply feels odd. I don’t know if I can put phrases to it.

Clay Mosley (25:13.678)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (25:27.79)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (25:28.013)
such as you’re being misleading?

Tina Zegel (25:29.874)
Possibly, yeah.

Clay Mosley (25:32.491)
On the finish of the day although, is it your identify that you just put your stamp of approval on it?

Tina Zegel (25:39.633)
Sure, like I’d, yeah, particularly at first as I’m constructing belief with anyone, they actually, this different particular person actually can be behind the scenes. And I wouldn’t, not less than at first for certain, I’d, you understand, all of the communication and all of the deliverables can be via, from me to the consumer. So I assume it shouldn’t matter. It’s simply.

Clay Mosley (25:49.111)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (26:02.582)
Wait, so once you say it feels odd, are you speaking about like at any time when, like initially whereas they’re on a trial interval, or are you speaking about as soon as they turn out to be like, quote unquote, a part of your staff, and now they’re working with this consumer that you just’ve had for 15 years as an alternative of you?

Tina Zegel (26:20.861)
I believe each, however extra so the primary one. Me. Yeah.

Clay Mosley (26:26.337)
Okay.

Clay Mosley (26:30.399)
I believe it’s simply new. I believe that’s fairly actually, I believe that’s what it’s. It is a very, very regular factor, by the best way. It’s a really regular factor. And I believe within the first scenario when somebody’s in a trial interval and also you’re working behind the scenes with this contractor, on the finish of the day, you’re placing the stamp of approval on it. You’re nonetheless delivering it to your consumer. It’s not this different particular person, it’s you.

Tina Zegel (26:37.191)
Okay.

Preston (26:40.08)
Completely.

Tina Zegel (26:58.473)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (26:58.858)
So I believe that that’s okay. Within the different scenario the place let’s simply say, okay, this particular person’s understanding, I’m now going to let this contractor handle, not handle, however do consumer communication immediately with this consumer that you just’ve had for 15 years. I can see the place that may very well be. Sure, that’s a…

Preston (27:24.499)
to me is a means greater step.

Tina Zegel (27:26.548)
Yeah.

Clay Mosley (27:27.518)
a lot greater step and I believe in case you have a consumer who’s been working with you for 15 years, they’re pals with you at this level, proper? I believe in the event that they’re true pals, they’re gonna be joyful for you that you just’re rising.

Tina Zegel (27:37.261)
Yeah, yeah, as a result of

Tina Zegel (27:47.075)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (27:50.163)
And actually on the finish of the day, they want, they want the deliverable, the worth that you just’ve been delivering all this time, proper? And sure, I’m certain they worth your friendship and all the things else that comes with working with you. However on the finish of the day, like they, the one cause this may go mistaken is in case you have another person working with them and so they’re not delivering the identical high quality of challenge that you just ship, proper? And-

Tina Zegel (28:17.351)
Proper.

Preston (28:18.139)
And so then it turns into like your job turns into high quality management, each within the communication and within the challenge itself. And you need to oversee that. And, and I’d, I’d make that clear along with your consumer, significantly if you happen to’re deciding, if you happen to’re making an attempt to resolve, like these individuals who I’ve labored completely with for 15 years and it’s simply been me, I believe I’d say if, if I have been in your footwear, I’d say to them privately,

Tina Zegel (28:25.376)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (28:43.323)
Everytime you really feel prefer it’s proper to introduce them to this information particular person, proper? I’d additionally say to them privately and along with an introduction the place the opposite particular person’s concerned, I’d then say, and likewise, I need you to understand how necessary our relationship is. I’ve cherished working with you. I’m going to be very, very concerned in your tasks, however you could talk somewhat extra with this particular person. In the event you ever have any subject or concern or query or something or really feel such as you’re not getting a response or if you happen to simply something, please come to me. I’m 100% obtainable.

you possibly can nonetheless attain me as you all the time have. However I’m simply making an attempt to, you understand, get your tasks completed somewhat extra shortly or carry somewhat extra further inventive aptitude or one thing like that, proper? Such as you actually finish on a constructive, however allow them to know that you just’re there 100% for them nonetheless.

Clay Mosley (29:18.625)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (29:19.984)
and

Tina Zegel (29:25.173)
Mm-hmm. Okay. So do you ever hear of individuals rising a enterprise in a means, like hypothetically talking, in a yr from now, say I’m not homeschooling my kids and I out of the blue had much more time after which I went and located extra work? And what would you concentrate on me form of persevering with my enterprise as is with the purchasers that I cherished and

was once employed by a few of them, and now they’re a consumer of mine. After which if I took on new purchasers and form of handled them otherwise, like they’re the purchasers which might be working with a staff extra than simply myself.

Preston (30:04.498)
Yeah.

Preston (30:12.351)
I believe there’s nothing mistaken with that so long as you simply perceive the place your time’s going to be spent, proper? Like how a lot time am I going to should proceed to dedicate to my purchasers that I need to simply work one on one with? I believe there’s nothing mistaken with that. Actually, that’s your prerogative as a enterprise proprietor to say like, these are the purchasers and tasks I need after which everybody else can have these different ones which might be going to assist pay the payments however that I’m not tremendous captivated with or I don’t have a protracted historical past with or no matter. There’s nothing mistaken with that. And I believe truly that may very well be segue or …

Clay Mosley (30:16.779)
Yeah.

Tina Zegel (30:37.045)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (30:38.67)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (30:41.511)
form of bridge between the place you at the moment are and the place you wanna be, as a result of in some unspecified time in the future then, your present purchasers, who you’re apprehensive about, that we’ve been speaking about, perhaps they get wind from one other consumer that you’ve this staff, proper? They usually’re like, whoa, maintain on, you could have extra sources we may faucet into or no matter? And also you’re like, yeah, I’ve acquired a author and a no matter, and we’d love that can assist you with these tasks. Otherwise you carry it up your self and also you’re like, hey, simply so you understand, during the last yr, I’ve added…

Tina Zegel (30:56.821)
Thanks.

Tina Zegel (31:04.361)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (31:10.827)
us, this particular person and this particular person to the staff, which implies we are able to now supply these companies if there’s one thing we will help you with. We’d love to try this. You already know, and it simply, yeah, I believe it offers alternative to bridge that hole somewhat bit.

Tina Zegel (31:17.651)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (31:22.689)
Mm hmm. Yeah, I’m undecided why I didn’t consider that earlier than, however I’m glad we’re getting on this name as a result of that actually does make plenty of sense to me.

Preston (31:33.383)
Oh, good. Good. Nice. Yeah. I believe, you understand, hiring, it’s a laborious one, however plenty of it’s in our head, proper? If you concentrate on most companies, most companies have folks working within the enterprise and because the enterprise adjustments and grows, it wants extra folks and completely different folks and individuals are used to that, proper? That’s simply the way it works. However we get so caught up in our personal head of like, oh, are they going to be mad? Are they going to really feel ignored? Are they going to? Nicely, put…

Tina Zegel (31:40.597)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (31:47.931)
Yeah.

Clay Mosley (31:48.322)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (31:54.42)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (32:02.207)
Put issues into place in order that they don’t really feel ignored. Give them loads of discover in order that they don’t get mad and shocked by it and confused by it, proper? All of these items like paint out worst case situations and say, how am I gonna deal with this forward of time so this worst case state of affairs doesn’t occur, proper?

Clay Mosley (32:05.367)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (32:09.127)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (32:17.702)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (32:18.478)
Yeah. Hey, one factor we haven’t talked about but is, one factor to form of like take a look at the waters with somebody is perhaps you simply give them a small a part of a challenge.

as an alternative of an entire challenge. You already know, perhaps it’s one thing that’s, you understand, perhaps it’s simply one thing that’s like, I don’t even know. I’m not as aware of, perhaps Preston. Preston’s graphic design, however, you understand, perhaps there’s like extra just like the setup or no matter with graphic design that anyone can do and you then take over. You already know what I imply? The principle half.

Tina Zegel (32:35.015)
Yeah.

Preston (33:00.411)
Oh, I really like that concept. Or you may even say like, I really feel like I’ve gotten this, you understand, you talked about package deal design earlier. I really feel like I’ve gotten this package deal design perhaps like 75% of the best way there. Are you able to check out it and simply, what would you modify or tweak? Possibly you will get it the remainder of the best way there and simply see how they’re capable of praise your concepts, proper? I believe if you happen to don’t wanna be stepping away totally from that inventive course of, which I’m gathering you don’t need to, I believe it’s necessary to see how one can work collectively.

Proper? And it is perhaps that the folks you rent simply assist you. Possibly you continue to work on all of the tasks, however perhaps they lower down your time that you just spend individually on them by 50% or one thing. By them, perhaps you do normal idea, you get it shut, and you then ship them a PSD file and so they end it out or no matter. Proper? And that simply permits you to do extra tasks in the identical period of time. I believe there’s a lot of choices there. I like that. I like that mind-set about it, Clay.

Tina Zegel (33:30.453)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (33:49.029)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (33:57.606)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, thanks. I form of really feel like I’m so deep in thought over what you’re saying. I’m undecided what I’ve right here.

Preston (34:05.467)
Hahaha

Clay Mosley (34:08.194)
You already know, on that, only one extra notice on that, you may rent somebody who shouldn’t be even a graphic designer as a result of I’m certain you could have plenty of administrative sort work that you need to do.

Tina Zegel (34:22.477)
Yeah, you understand, it’s humorous, I believe it was Preston, you that mentioned that you just assumed that I’d need to be form of within the, within the lead and really concerned, particularly with new tasks and issues and part of me form of desires to even take a look at the waters with stepping away from that as a result of and even perhaps collaborating with anyone as a result of I get the factor about I may simply spend time and

Preston (34:30.943)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (34:50.285)
cash, largely cash to outsource some administrative issues. Which once I do develop my enterprise, that looks like a no brainer that I’ll do. However I truly form of typically, I simply need to collaborate with designers too. Like I’ve been working in a silo for therefore lengthy. I believe I’m extra fearful that anyone’s not going to ship

Clay Mosley (34:53.591)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (35:18.557)
the proper high quality on time, then I’m truly releasing some fairly sizable tasks to anyone to only see what that seems like. To see it. Yeah.

Preston (35:23.475)
Hmm.

Preston (35:30.099)
Nicely, I really like that you just’re occupied with it that means. And I’d simply remind you once more, then that there are many designers who ship on time, ship early. Um, yeah, I believe it could take a minute to search out the one who works in your, in your greatest timetable, however you understand, there’s, there’s a lot of dependable freelancers on the market, proficient, dependable freelancers.

Tina Zegel (35:45.981)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (35:51.394)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (35:52.47)
I do know it must be the obvious factor and for no matter cause I’m like caught on the aspect of this big wall there’s all these succesful designers on the opposite aspect of it

Preston (36:05.719)
And the one approach to overcome that’s to have and have a constructive expertise, proper? They are saying experiences create beliefs. You may have someplace alongside the road, you’ve had an expertise or a couple of perhaps the place somebody hasn’t delivered, proper? And so that you’ve constructed up this perception in your thoughts. And so it’s worthwhile to have some constructive experiences. It’s essential discover some freelancers who provide you with a constructive expertise by way of deadline. And that’ll begin to change. And also you’ll begin to go, huh, okay, folks can ship on time. I can belief them to try this.

Clay Mosley (36:10.07)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (36:35.866)
Yeah, I hope in six months or 12 months at any time when I resolve to present it a go, I hope I can simply get again on the on a name and say I did it and it labored properly and neatest thing ever.

Clay Mosley (36:47.342)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (36:48.103)
Nicely, we hope so too. It’s been an actual pleasure chatting with you in the present day. This has been enjoyable for me. We’ve talked about some issues we’ve by no means talked about on the present earlier than. So thanks, Tina, for having the braveness to come back on the present and let everybody hear what you’re as much as. If you want to affix us, we’d like to have you ever listener. Please go to free after which simply scroll to the underside of the web page, join a time and we chat about your corporation. Tina, earlier than you go, will you let all people know the place they’ll join with you in case they need to work with you?

Tina Zegel (37:16.277)
Completely. So I’m on LinkedIn. I’m embarrassed to say I don’t know my precise URL to get there, however my web site is TinaZigel.com. It’s T-I- And from there, yow will discover me on LinkedIn additionally.

Preston (37:35.839)
I find it irresistible. Tina, thanks a lot. I’ve been Preston from millow.co, and naturally, Clay from getdripify.com. Thanks for becoming a member of us in the present day, Clay. We’ll speak to you guys subsequent time.

Clay Mosley (37:36.654)
Good.

Clay Mosley (37:45.087)
See ya!

Tina Zegel (37:45.929)
Thanks.

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