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Wednesday, June 12, 2024

Do Companies Get Larger Shoppers? — Millo.co


Preston (00:01.479)
Whats up and welcome again to a different episode of Freelance to Founder. My title is Preston Lee with Millo.co and becoming a member of me on the air at this time is my pal Clay Mosley from GetDripify.com. Hey Clay, the way you doing man?

Clay Mosley (00:12.45)
Whats up, hi there. Doing good, man. I’m excited for 2024 podcasting season.

Preston (00:21.023)
That’s proper, we’re simply getting began with 2024. By the point this airs, we’ll be a couple of weeks into it, but it surely simply feels good to be again chatting with you. I missed you. And it’s simply enjoyable. How’s, do you could have snow down in Texas nowadays?

Clay Mosley (00:30.954)
Hahaha!

Clay Mosley (00:35.926)
Uh, no, I’m, it’s like 70 levels.

Preston (00:39.375)
Oh my gosh, I’m so jealous of you. We acquired like 9 inches of snow yesterday, randomly out of nowhere. Like I pulled out of my storage to go to church and didn’t even actually understand it had snowed and hastily I’m driving by like 9 inches of snow. It was nuts. Effectively, we acquired loads of it. Come on up. We acquired a visitor room you may keep in and loads of snow. So additionally becoming a member of us at this time, most likely is aware of just a little bit extra about snow is my visitor is Tina. Hello, Tina.

Tina Zegel (01:09.393)
Hello, thanks for having me on the present.

Preston (01:12.035)
Completely calling in from Minnesota, proper? Yeah, snow up there? What?

Tina Zegel (01:14.609)
Sure, Minnesota. Hardly. It’s very uncommon. All people’s scratching their heads, questioning the place it’s.

Preston (01:21.579)
Yeah, as a result of normally you could have a bunch, proper? Yeah

Tina Zegel (01:23.609)
Yep, yeah, persons are ready to get on the ice to do every kind of issues and it’s not occurring.

Preston (01:27.827)
Yeah, yeah, nicely, world warming and all that, whether or not you consider it in or not, I don’t know. However for some motive, we’ve had a reasonably dry season too. Anyway, that’s fairly boring. So we’re going to maneuver on. Tina, why don’t you inform us just a little bit about and that was my fault. It’s boring. Not your fault, Tina. Tina, inform us about your small business. Save me from this terrible section I’m doing right here.

Tina Zegel (01:32.622)
Thanks.

Tina Zegel (01:40.789)
I’m going to go forward and switch it off.

Tina Zegel (01:47.628)
Hahaha

Clay Mosley (01:48.599)
I used to be gonna allow you to preserve going.

Preston (01:52.359)
Tina, why don’t you save me? Inform me, inform us just a little bit about your small business, what you’re engaged on, the providers you present, how lengthy you’ve been in enterprise. Simply type of paint an image for us.

Tina Zegel (01:59.957)
Positive. So I’ve been working independently as a graphic designer and a meals and product photographer for eight years. And previous to that, I really did the maths earlier than this name as a result of wow, I’ve really been doing this for longer than I noticed. I’ve been doing this for 17 years. And I began working for pure meat corporations 17 years in the past, and labored for them for fairly a couple of years after which went out by myself.

Preston (02:10.264)
Oh cool.

Tina Zegel (02:29.893)
eight years in the past. And since going by myself, I did that once I had two younger kids. So I’ve, by design, deliberately saved my enterprise small. And it’s labored actually, rather well as a result of I like what I do and I could make some respectable revenue by myself schedule from my own residence.

And but I’ve been holding this rigidity for eight years, like when am I going to develop and the way am I going to do it? And I spend a lot time interested by it and questioning about it. After which not too long ago, I had this realization as a result of I’ve so many goals which can be on maintain on a shelf, like simply build up for the someday once I lastly resolve that it’s time. And the rationale it’s not time but is as a result of the best way that I select to coach my kids, I homeschool them.

Preston (03:05.331)
Hmm.

Tina Zegel (03:28.281)
Um, and someday which will change or someday they could become older the place I’m simply much less concerned in a day after day. Yeah. So I’ve simply been holding this query actually for eight years as a result of I like what I do. I like my job. It fills me up. I’d really do it and receives a commission nothing. So it’s a very nice bonus that I make a pleasant revenue doing what I like.

Preston (03:35.731)
Assured they’ll become older. Yeah.

Tina Zegel (03:57.753)
Um, after which anyway, a pair months in the past, I used to be listening to the podcast and I assumed, right here I’m having this concept in my thoughts that sometime I’m going to attempt to get a training name with Preston and Clay. After which it dawned on me, they may change their minds someday. They may, you already know, have a profession change and resolve their podcasts over. What am I ready for? So I simply, I actually wish to choose your brains as a result of I don’t know if it’s going to be.

Clay Mosley (04:20.695)
Ha ha ha.

Tina Zegel (04:26.053)
in three months or six months or two years, however I actually have quite a lot of confusion about find out how to develop as a result of I undoubtedly, I work in a silo. I’m not, I’m not an company in any respect. It’s simply me. I’ve been quietly doing my factor for eight years and loving it, but it surely doesn’t ever change. It’s simply the identical factor for eight years.

Preston (04:54.427)
I like the way you’ve put it although. Like we talked to so many people who find themselves like, oh, I’ve been, you already know, working a day job for, and I used to be this, proper? I’ve been working a day job for eight years, doing stuff on the facet of pondering like someday, someday I’m gonna, you already know, some magic one thing’s gonna occur or I’m gonna construct up the nerve or no matter. Someday, someday, someday. And I did that for thus a few years. And I like that you just’re mentioning this level, which I’ll suppose quite a lot of freelancers face, which is like, issues are good. Issues are adequate, proper? And

Tina Zegel (05:12.638)
and

Preston (05:23.731)
However there’s one thing perhaps at the back of your thoughts, one thing deep down going like, oh, may there be extra? May there be extra to working my very own enterprise? Would I’ve extra enjoyable or make more cash or no matter and nonetheless be capable to perhaps have the life-style with my household that I need, homeschool my children, no matter that your priorities are. So I like that you just introduced that up as a result of I believe that occurs to all of us in a method or one other.

Tina Zegel (05:48.581)
Yeah, I simply, the limbo is odd. I by no means thought, nicely, in so some ways, life will not be what we expect it’s once we get to the subsequent season. However I’ve been holding this query for thus lengthy and I’m like, I don’t wanna wait one other eight years. I don’t even know if I wanna wait one other 12 months. I wanna discover out and I actually wanna check the waters with what’s it even like to rent someone? I’d resolve I hate it, however I don’t like not figuring out. I actually wanna attempt it.

Preston (06:07.283)
Yeah.

Tina Zegel (06:18.201)
And I hear you guys speak so much about hiring individuals. Ought to I rent individuals? As a result of some individuals select to not. Some individuals select to only keep unbiased. However I assume in my thoughts, I can’t even image how to do this logistically and the way to do this in a manner that’s probably not excessive danger. As a result of I assume I really feel like one of many, I’m not a designer that thinks.

Um, I don’t maintain a perception that there’s not one other designer that may do good work. I’m nicely conscious there are many designers that do work so much, like even stronger than my work. I simply have this concern of them not delivering and in addition delivering. Perhaps on time. So then what do I do to speak to my shopper? As a result of I’ve a extremely good observe document of figuring out what I can get achieved.

when and once I can get it achieved. And so I believe that’s my large concern. I do know that there’s succesful designers and I believe my concern is that they gained’t ship on time after which what do I do? I type of again myself right into a nook.

Preston (07:34.703)
Yeah, okay, that’s a troublesome one. And I like that you just deliver that up. I believe that is one thing we don’t speak so much about once we discuss hiring and that’s, and Clay and I’ve confronted this ourselves, proper? And that’s that you just rent somebody they usually don’t ship or they ship late or their high quality is manner decrease than what you thought it was gonna be. And that may be a actual problem. And simply to deliver everybody in control shortly too, you set in your survey as you ready for the present.

Clay Mosley (07:44.423)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (08:03.123)
And in case you wanna come on the present, in case you’re anxious that Clay and I are gonna cease podcasting subsequent month, additionally, which we’re not, however we’d like to have you ever as quickly as attainable. I like that Tina, you simply have been like, you already know what, I’m simply gonna do it. And we’d like to have you ever listener on the present as nicely. You simply go to free and also you scroll to the underside of the web page, you fill out a fast questionnaire. On that questionnaire, one of many questions is, on a scale of 1 to 10, one being a freelancer, 10 being a founder, the place would you set your self?

Clay Mosley (08:07.416)
Hahaha

Preston (08:30.667)
and the place do you wish to be, proper? And you set that you just’re presently at a two, you’d wish to be at a 4. And to me, yeah, one of many large differentiators between a two and a 4 is you’ve employed somebody, even when it’s only a contractor, proper? It doesn’t need to be a full-time worker. And so I like that you just’ve introduced up this concern, which is like, how do I do know I can depend on someone? And we’ve talked about, such as you stated on the present, to suppose that you just’re the one designer that may do nicely at design is kind of…

ridiculous in a manner, proper? And so I’m glad that’s not the difficulty. The difficulty is how do I do know somebody’s gonna ship and in the event that they don’t, what do I do to take care of a superb shopper relationship? So I’ve some concepts, however Clay, is something bouncing round in your thoughts as you hear among the issues that Tina’s mentioning?

Clay Mosley (09:11.177)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (09:16.43)
Yeah, so I can inform you proper now hiring your first individual is probably the most is probably the most nerve wracking factor. The primary rent is at all times the yeah it’s the hardest one. It will get manner simpler after that, however the very first one is hard as a result of I bear in mind, I bear in mind the primary time I employed someone and

Preston (09:30.631)
Yeah, that first one’s robust.

Clay Mosley (09:45.274)
I used to be in a, financially I used to be ready the place that first individual was getting paid greater than me. ? And that’s simply, that’s simply the fact of startup. , it’s such as you put your a reimbursement into, I’m not saying that is going to be true for you, Tina. However my level is, is I used to be tremendous, tremendous nervous about it. I’m going to type of burst your bubble right here just a little bit.

Preston (09:54.159)
Yep

Clay Mosley (10:10.05)
You don’t the query is how have you learnt they’re going to have the ability to ship you actually don’t know till you really rent them Now I’ll say this Yeah, I’ll say this although as a result of I’ve i’ve had i’ve employed a many individuals um each as w2 workers, um, and as contractors like most likely at the least Complete hires most likely at the least 4 dozen

Tina Zegel (10:18.037)
Nothing to be happy with, hoping for.

Clay Mosley (10:38.71)
within the final eight years, there are issues which you can put in place to reduce the influence it is going to have on your small business to at the least attempt them out. So to reply your query, you’re not going to know till you set them to the check, however you may run them by, I don’t know, principally a gauntlet, principally what I name it to see in the event that they’re going to suit.

Preston (11:06.427)
Yeah, I agree with that. I’m a agency believer that it’s not okay to get free work in the course of the utility course of, however I believe there may be alternative the place you could possibly pay somebody on a one-off challenge, proper? So like, let’s say you could have a challenge, Tina, that has loads of runway. Perhaps the subsequent time a shopper involves you and says, I need this and this achieved, you bid it out, however you give them a timeline that’s perhaps twice so long as you’ll usually take.

Clay Mosley (11:13.506)
quickly.

Preston (11:33.999)
And then you definately discover a contractor that you just rent only for that challenge, proper? It’s not a long-term association, it’s not everlasting, there’s very low danger, and also you rent them for this one challenge, and perhaps you discover them by a market or by your community or one thing like that, proper? And also you simply rent them one-off. And chances are you’ll even give them the majority of the cost of that one challenge simply to expedite the entire course of, proper? And then you definately give them a deadline.

Tina Zegel (11:59.285)
Thanks.

Preston (12:02.619)
And then you definately see how they reply. And since you’ve given your self a extremely lengthy timeline on this singular challenge, then worst case situation, in the event that they don’t ship on time, you may both take a late challenge from them and nonetheless ship to your shopper on time, or you could possibly step in and simply do the challenge. Sure, it may be a ache, however that might be once more, worst case situation, proper? Ideally, center case situation, they’re like a couple of days late or one thing, after which excellent case situation, they ship on time. And so,

Tina Zegel (12:20.169)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (12:23.633)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (12:31.023)
I believe you can begin actually small. Generally we expect we use the phrase hiring and it’s like, nicely, I gotta discover somebody who’s gonna be completely on my staff. Nearly everybody that I’ve employed on my staff, I began with like a one-off challenge first. Effectively, that’s not true now, however I’d say early on I did. And it was like, are you able to write an article for the web site or are you able to design this factor or are you able to develop this plan or are you able to provide you with concepts for XYZ? And I simply paid them for one challenge.

After which I acquired an thought of how they really work, how they convey, once they ship, all of these questions you could have which can be a black field proper now, all of them turn out to be very, very clear in working with that individual on a one-off challenge. After which if that goes nicely, and you’ll even say to them upfront, if this goes nicely, I’ve, you already know, I’d love to determine a long-term factor, however I wanna be certain that it really works out nicely for each of us earlier than we decide to one thing, you already know, extra in depth. Yeah.

Clay Mosley (13:24.042)
Yeah, be clear about that.

Tina Zegel (13:27.593)
That is sensible, thanks. So it feels like I’m simply actually need to construct in buffers for the simply in case they don’t ship.

Preston (13:38.011)
Yeah, I believe that may be useful at first. And then you definately’ll begin to get a really feel for like, and it’ll, trigger it is going to additionally take longer naturally as a result of there’s further communication occurring, proper? So that you do wish to construct in a security internet so that you just’re not over promising to your purchasers after which beneath delivering by lacking deadlines.

Clay Mosley (13:38.207)
Yeah.

Tina Zegel (13:48.402)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (13:56.295)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (13:56.462)
However you wish to do this anyway, even in case you have been doing it by yourself, you already know?

Tina Zegel (14:00.901)
Proper, yeah, I believe I do this to a degree, however I do…

Tina Zegel (14:09.873)
I don’t know, one way or the other it simply appears to work out. I do have some fairly tight deadlines and massive guarantees to my purchasers with just a little little bit of buffer, however I’d most likely need to double or triple it if I have been delegating, even when you consider the time that it takes to delegate and talk.

Clay Mosley (14:31.531)
your typical challenge.

Tina Zegel (14:33.533)
So I forgot to say, I solely work for pure meals manufacturers. So I stay in a really area of interest market, which I like. So my initiatives may very well be anyplace from a brand new emblem or model identification, which to be sincere, that doesn’t occur fairly often as a result of I solely have a couple of purchasers. So I extra usually construct issues like meals labels, packages, brochures.

Um, I-

Clay Mosley (15:04.198)
Okay, let’s take a meals label. How lengthy does its meals label challenge take?

Tina Zegel (15:11.721)
Um, it may take anyplace from 10 minutes to many hours, actually. I did.

Clay Mosley (15:13.055)
on common.

Preston (15:19.315)
However from the time, from the time, yeah. Like from the time that the shopper agrees to do the challenge till you ship it, is {that a} week, a few days?

Clay Mosley (15:19.37)
Effectively, from a calendar timeline.

Tina Zegel (15:28.377)
Okay, so I do know you guys most likely need a straightforward reply on this, however I actually solely have a couple of purchasers. And I virtually simply type of merge myself into as a member of their staff. And once I first begin working with them, once I first begin working with a shopper, I ship them challenge estimates. After which I transfer away from that after they belief me. And I simply cost them every thing they ship me.

Preston (15:32.935)
Hahaha

Preston (15:40.765)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (15:56.921)
I inform them once I suppose I’ll be capable to get it achieved, after which I cost by the hour.

Clay Mosley (16:03.463)
Okay, so…

Tina Zegel (16:04.057)
So actually they may, they might ship me a challenge that takes me 10 minutes, or they might ship me a challenge that takes 40 hours.

Clay Mosley (16:12.706)
Let me construct a hypothetical scenario. I’m a shopper that I already belief you. And I stated, I would like a label for this meals product. Right here’s my cash, increase, I paid you. How lengthy will it take? I’m asking as a shopper on this hypothetical scenario. How lengthy will or not it’s? What’s the supply time?

Tina Zegel (16:15.321)
Okay.

Tina Zegel (16:34.921)
Yeah. So let’s see.

Tina Zegel (16:41.269)
So I’d inform them it’s gonna take me two weeks.

Clay Mosley (16:44.93)
Two weeks, okay. So in case you have been to rent someone that will help you with this, I don’t know, and this is rather like, I’m simply going off and perhaps Preston can chime in right here, however I’m simply basing this off of my expertise with hiring somebody and dealing with them. I don’t suppose it’s gonna double or triple your time. I actually don’t.

Preston (17:12.796)
I agree with that. Yeah.

Clay Mosley (17:13.934)
I believe it’s going to perhaps, I’d add in 20, 25% extra, for my part.

So as a substitute of two weeks, perhaps you could possibly perhaps make it like two and a half weeks.

Tina Zegel (17:23.631)
Okay.

Preston (17:34.715)
I agree, and I believe in case you’re actually, actually anxious a few freelancer delivering, I referenced what we discuss generally on the present and I believe you referenced it as nicely, Tina, and that’s wish to suppose that you just’re the one individual that may do this work is simply, it doesn’t make any sense, proper? There’s so many gifted individuals. And so that you acknowledge that. I believe it’s additionally essential to acknowledge there are such a lot of individuals who can ship.

Clay Mosley (17:52.12)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (18:01.759)
good high quality initiatives on time they usually do they usually make a residing doing that identical to you do, proper?

Tina Zegel (18:07.162)
I believe it perhaps doesn’t appear actual to me as a result of I’ve by no means achieved it.

Preston (18:11.668)
Mm. Yeah.

Clay Mosley (18:11.818)
Let me inform you, let me inform you, let me inform you what’s gonna occur. Um, you’ll, one can find some those who mo as you rent individuals. I simply wish to set expectations. They are going to do. Most of them will do about 80% nearly as good as you’ll.

Preston (18:31.548)
Yeah, that’s proper.

Clay Mosley (18:32.866)
A great one. So I wish to set that expectation with you as a result of in case you’re anticipating 100% nearly as good as you, that’s uncommon. That’s uncommon. They don’t care. Yeah. They are going to do about 70, 80% nearly as good as you. You’ll although, as you get into this and also you continue to grow, you want extra individuals, what’s going to occur is one can find someone who’s higher than you.

Preston (18:40.767)
They don’t care as a lot as you. It’s not their enterprise, proper?

Tina Zegel (18:43.837)
Yeah.

Tina Zegel (18:48.302)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (19:01.073)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (19:02.134)
which is superior, proper?

Tina Zegel (19:04.121)
and doesn’t wish to be working a enterprise. They only wish to be doing design, after which they’re keen to work for someone else.

Clay Mosley (19:07.378)
Yeah.

Preston (19:08.239)
Yep.

Clay Mosley (19:11.63)
Uh-huh. However I’m simply going to inform you, I simply needed to provide you that expectation that almost all of them, they’re going to do 70 to 80 % nearly as good as you.

Tina Zegel (19:20.611)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (19:22.507)
The opposite factor I’d add too is like in the course of the interview course of, as you’re vetting individuals, it’s completely acceptable so that you can say, I’ve a zero tolerance coverage on late initiatives is how do you’re feeling about that? Proper? Like, like if, in case you flip one thing in late, we’re not going to have the ability to work collectively on one other challenge. That’ll be the tip of it. So I imply, that’s a really onerous line within the sand, proper? But when it’s that essential to you, it’s okay to deliver that up. And

Tina Zegel (19:35.201)
Okay.

Tina Zegel (19:45.99)
Thanks.

Tina Zegel (19:49.617)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (19:50.511)
And also you may in actual life be extra lenient, proper? However getting their response to one thing like that’s essential. If they are saying, oh, no downside, I really feel the identical manner. I hate it when issues are late and I’m at all times on time and my purchasers love that I ship early and da da, proper? Then sure, it may very well be lip service, proper? They may very well be making it up, however I believe you may at the least get a way of how they reply to one thing.

Tina Zegel (19:53.362)
Thanks.

Tina Zegel (20:06.555)
Yep.

Tina Zegel (20:16.526)
Yeah, thanks for that. That is sensible. It’s fascinating. I’m interested by this constructing in a buffer to reduce the danger of hiring someone. But it surely seems like ideally in case you discover the fitting individual, if something, it ought to go quicker, proper? As a result of there’s one in every of me.

Clay Mosley (20:32.81)
It ought to go quicker. Yeah.

Yeah, it ought to go quicker. However initially, if you’re looking for the fitting individual, I believe it’s good to construct about 20% extra.

Tina Zegel (20:48.038)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (20:48.842)
As a result of, I imply, you could possibly undergo one, two, three, 5 individuals earlier than you discover somebody that’s like a proper match.

Tina Zegel (20:53.493)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Preston (20:56.911)
Yeah, I believe for me that buffer thought was extra like on this instance of discover a one off challenge, discover a one off freelancer, give it a check trip. Trigger you’re additionally going to be taught issues about your self, Tina, about the way you handle, the way you talk, stuff you didn’t find out about that course of, stuff you weren’t anticipating about that course of, proper? You discover somebody in a distinct time zone and hastily you understand like communication will not be as instantaneous, proper? I’ve somebody on my staff who works in Pakistan and he does an amazing job.

However there are generally once I’m like, I would like this factor urgently and it’s like, oh, it’s 2 a.m. proper now. I’m not gonna wake him as much as remedy this downside, proper? So, you already know, there’s gonna be issues that come up and so I believe significantly on that first run, you wanna construct in, I’d construct in just a little bit greater than 20 or 25% on that first one simply to find out how issues work. After which as you get higher at it, you may type of deliver that buffer down. After which in some unspecified time in the future, such as you stated, chances are you’ll not want a buffer anymore, proper? It’d really occur extra shortly.

Tina Zegel (21:50.869)
Mm-hmm. So I’ve one other query. Is that this a superb time for it? OK. I additionally hear you speak on the present about not apologizing to your purchasers that you’ve got a staff and that you just’re not simply an unbiased. And I perceive that. And I’d undoubtedly, over time, wish to talk to my purchasers that I’m, in reality, working with different individuals. And I do have already got it written into my contracts with my purchasers. They’ve signed on the dotted line.

Preston (21:56.033)
Sure, let’s do it.

Tina Zegel (22:20.881)
about that I’d rent someone, however all of them know that I actually haven’t. And so I’m curious in case you have an opinion on once I rent someone, say it’s a subcontractor, and I’m simply testing the waters with them. Do you’re feeling like it could be a good suggestion to really wait to inform my purchasers, like, wait till I’m not simply testing the waters and I really feel like that is actually working?

And now I actually am going to do that after which talk to them that.

Clay Mosley (22:54.526)
I’d wait. I’d wait. Effectively, okay. So every time I say I’d wait, I everytime you’re you are attempting someone out, I take into account it as a trial interval. They’re not really somebody who you’re going at the least at that time not they’re not somebody who you’re going to use regularly. Now you may Out of your shopper’s perspective, you might be engaged on it proper

Tina Zegel (23:04.83)
Yeah.

Tina Zegel (23:15.551)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (23:23.446)
However out of your perspective internally behind the scenes, you’re working with this different individual. And I personally don’t suppose that’s unethical since you’re nonetheless managing the challenge. However in case you get to the purpose the place like, you’ve gone by this trial interval with this individual, okay, you’ve gone by two, three, 4 different initiatives with this individual, okay, now it’s fairly stable that, okay, I’m gonna preserve working with this individual.

Tina Zegel (23:35.06)
Sure.

Clay Mosley (23:52.446)
At that time, you could possibly do an introduction to your purchasers and say, hey, let’s welcome so-and-so to the staff. That’s what I’d do.

Tina Zegel (24:04.085)
Mm-hmm. Okay. I believe it feels odd to me as a result of a few of my purchasers I’ve been working with for like 15 years. And so I get the entire thing about, it may very well be a extremely great point, it may even work out higher for them if I’ve someone else on my facet. It simply feels odd to me to be working behind the scenes to not simply be one individual after which.

I don’t know, as a result of it’s not only a, they’re not only a enterprise shopper, you already know, I’ve recognized them for 15 years. And I’m additionally ready the place I wish to be, which is I’ve a couple of purchasers and that’s the place I wish to be. And I, it’s actually pretty as a result of I like all my purchasers and I’ve had different individuals attain out to me and ask for work. And I simply get to say no and never really feel dangerous about it. So I actually, actually love that I get to decide on my purchasers.

Clay Mosley (24:38.691)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (25:02.577)
as a result of…

Clay Mosley (25:05.11)
Effectively, let’s discuss why does it really feel odd to you?

Tina Zegel (25:10.426)
Um, I assume it feels just a little disingenuous, like, as a result of I’m a fairly open e-book simply typically about my, about myself and the best way I do enterprise and I don’t know, it simply feels odd. I don’t know if I can put phrases to it.

Clay Mosley (25:13.678)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (25:27.79)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (25:28.013)
such as you’re being misleading?

Tina Zegel (25:29.874)
Perhaps, yeah.

Clay Mosley (25:32.491)
On the finish of the day although, is it your title that you just put your stamp of approval on it?

Tina Zegel (25:39.633)
Sure, like I’d, yeah, particularly at first as I’m constructing belief with someone, they actually, this different individual actually could be behind the scenes. And I wouldn’t, at the least at first for positive, I’d, you already know, all of the communication and all of the deliverables could be by, from me to the shopper. So I assume it shouldn’t matter. It’s simply.

Clay Mosley (25:49.111)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (26:02.582)
Wait, so if you say it feels odd, are you speaking about like every time, like initially whereas they’re on a trial interval, or are you speaking about as soon as they turn out to be like, quote unquote, a part of your staff, and now they’re working with this shopper that you just’ve had for 15 years as a substitute of you?

Tina Zegel (26:20.861)
I believe each, however extra so the primary one. Me. Yeah.

Clay Mosley (26:26.337)
Okay.

Clay Mosley (26:30.399)
I believe it’s simply new. I believe that’s fairly actually, I believe that’s what it’s. This can be a very, very regular factor, by the best way. It’s a really regular factor. And I believe within the first scenario when somebody’s in a trial interval and also you’re working behind the scenes with this contractor, on the finish of the day, you might be placing the stamp of approval on it. You’re nonetheless delivering it to your shopper. It’s not this different individual, it’s you.

Tina Zegel (26:37.191)
Okay.

Preston (26:40.08)
Completely.

Tina Zegel (26:58.473)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (26:58.858)
So I believe that that’s okay. Within the different scenario the place let’s simply say, okay, this individual’s figuring out, I’m now going to let this contractor handle, not handle, however do shopper communication straight with this shopper that you just’ve had for 15 years. I can see the place that may very well be. Sure, that’s a…

Preston (27:24.499)
to me is a manner greater step.

Tina Zegel (27:26.548)
Yeah.

Clay Mosley (27:27.518)
a lot greater step and I believe in case you have a shopper who’s been working with you for 15 years, they’re buddies with you at this level, proper? I believe in the event that they’re true buddies, they’re gonna be completely satisfied for you that you just’re rising.

Tina Zegel (27:37.261)
Yeah, yeah, as a result of

Tina Zegel (27:47.075)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (27:50.163)
And actually on the finish of the day, they want, they want the deliverable, the worth that you just’ve been delivering all this time, proper? And sure, I’m positive they worth your friendship and every thing else that comes with working with you. However on the finish of the day, like they, the one motive this is able to go unsuitable is in case you have another person working with them they usually’re not delivering the identical high quality of challenge that you just ship, proper? And-

Tina Zegel (28:17.351)
Proper.

Preston (28:18.139)
And so then it turns into like your job turns into high quality management, each within the communication and within the challenge itself. And you need to oversee that. And, and I’d, I’d make that clear along with your shopper, significantly in case you’re deciding, in case you’re making an attempt to resolve, like these individuals who I’ve labored solely with for 15 years and it’s simply been me, I believe I’d say if, if I have been in your footwear, I’d say to them privately,

Tina Zegel (28:25.376)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (28:43.323)
Everytime you really feel prefer it’s proper to introduce them to this information individual, proper? I’d additionally say to them privately and along with an introduction the place the opposite individual’s concerned, I’d then say, and in addition, I need you to know the way essential our relationship is. I’ve liked working with you. I’m going to be very, very concerned in your initiatives, however chances are you’ll talk just a little extra with this individual. In case you ever have any situation or concern or query or something or really feel such as you’re not getting a response or in case you simply something, please come to me. I’m 100% obtainable.

you may nonetheless attain me as you at all times have. However I’m simply making an attempt to, you already know, get your initiatives achieved just a little extra shortly or deliver just a little extra further artistic aptitude or one thing like that, proper? Such as you actually finish on a optimistic, however allow them to know that you just’re there 100% for them nonetheless.

Clay Mosley (29:18.625)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (29:19.984)
and

Tina Zegel (29:25.173)
Mm-hmm. Okay. So do you ever hear of individuals rising a enterprise in a manner, like hypothetically talking, in a 12 months from now, say I’m not homeschooling my kids and I all of the sudden had much more time after which I went and located extra work? And what would you consider me type of persevering with my enterprise as is with the purchasers that I liked and

was once employed by a few of them, and now they’re a shopper of mine. After which if I took on new purchasers and type of handled them in another way, like they’re the purchasers which can be working with a staff extra than simply myself.

Preston (30:04.498)
Yeah.

Preston (30:12.351)
I believe there’s nothing unsuitable with that so long as you simply perceive the place your time’s going to be spent, proper? Like how a lot time am I going to need to proceed to dedicate to my purchasers that I wish to simply work one on one with? I believe there’s nothing unsuitable with that. In truth, that’s your prerogative as a enterprise proprietor to say like, these are the purchasers and initiatives I need after which everybody else can have these different ones which can be going to assist pay the payments however that I’m not tremendous obsessed with or I don’t have an extended historical past with or no matter. There’s nothing unsuitable with that. And I believe really that may very well be a superb segue or a superb…

Clay Mosley (30:16.779)
Yeah.

Tina Zegel (30:37.045)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (30:38.67)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (30:41.511)
kind of bridge between the place you are actually and the place you wanna be, as a result of in some unspecified time in the future then, your present purchasers, who you’re anxious about, that we’ve been speaking about, perhaps they get wind from one other shopper that you’ve got this staff, proper? And so they’re like, whoa, maintain on, you could have extra assets we may faucet into or no matter? And also you’re like, yeah, I’ve acquired a author and a no matter, and we’d love that will help you with these initiatives. Otherwise you deliver it up your self and also you’re like, hey, simply so you already know, over the past 12 months, I’ve added…

Tina Zegel (30:56.821)
Thanks.

Tina Zegel (31:04.361)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (31:10.827)
us, this individual and this individual to the staff, which implies we are able to now provide these providers if there’s one thing we might help you with. We’d love to do this. , and it simply, yeah, I believe it offers alternative to bridge that hole just a little bit.

Tina Zegel (31:17.651)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (31:22.689)
Mm hmm. Yeah, I’m unsure why I didn’t consider that earlier than, however I’m glad we’re getting on this name as a result of that actually does make quite a lot of sense to me.

Preston (31:33.383)
Oh, good. Good. Nice. Yeah. I believe, you already know, hiring, it’s a onerous one, however quite a lot of it’s in our head, proper? If you consider most companies, most companies have individuals working within the enterprise and because the enterprise adjustments and grows, it wants extra individuals and completely different individuals and persons are used to that, proper? That’s simply the way it works. However we get so caught up in our personal head of like, oh, are they going to be mad? Are they going to really feel ignored? Are they going to? Effectively, put…

Tina Zegel (31:40.597)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (31:47.931)
Yeah.

Clay Mosley (31:48.322)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (31:54.42)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (32:02.207)
Put issues into place in order that they don’t really feel ignored. Give them loads of discover so that they don’t get mad and shocked by it and confused by it, proper? All of this stuff like paint out worst case eventualities and say, how am I gonna deal with this forward of time so this worst case situation doesn’t occur, proper?

Clay Mosley (32:05.367)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (32:09.127)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (32:17.702)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (32:18.478)
Yeah. Hey, one factor we haven’t talked about but is, one factor to type of like check the waters with somebody is perhaps you simply give them a small a part of a challenge.

as a substitute of an entire challenge. , perhaps it’s one thing that’s, you already know, perhaps it’s simply one thing that’s like, I don’t even know. I’m not as accustomed to, perhaps Preston. Preston’s graphic design, however, you already know, perhaps there’s like extra just like the setup or no matter with graphic design that someone can do and then you definately take over. what I imply? The principle half.

Tina Zegel (32:35.015)
Yeah.

Preston (33:00.411)
Oh, I like that concept. Or you could possibly even say like, I really feel like I’ve gotten this, you already know, you talked about package deal design earlier. I really feel like I’ve gotten this package deal design perhaps like 75% of the best way there. Are you able to check out it and simply, what would you modify or tweak? Perhaps you may get it the remainder of the best way there and simply see how they’re in a position to praise your concepts, proper? I believe in case you don’t wanna be stepping away solely from that artistic course of, which I’m gathering you don’t wish to, I believe it’s essential to see how one can work collectively.

Proper? And it may be that the individuals you rent simply make it easier to. Perhaps you continue to work on all of the initiatives, however perhaps they minimize down your time that you just spend individually on them by 50% or one thing. By them, perhaps you do basic idea, you get it shut, and then you definately ship them a PSD file they usually end it out or no matter. Proper? And that simply lets you do extra initiatives in the identical period of time. I believe there’s plenty of choices there. I like that. I like that mind-set about it, Clay.

Tina Zegel (33:30.453)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (33:49.029)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (33:57.606)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, thanks. I type of really feel like I’m so deep in thought over what you’re saying. I’m unsure what I’ve right here.

Preston (34:05.467)
Hahaha

Clay Mosley (34:08.194)
, on that, only one extra word on that, you could possibly rent somebody who will not be even a graphic designer as a result of I’m positive you could have quite a lot of administrative sort work that you need to do.

Tina Zegel (34:22.477)
Yeah, you already know, it’s humorous, I believe it was Preston, you that stated that you just assumed that I’d wish to be type of within the, within the lead and really concerned, particularly with new initiatives and issues and part of me type of needs to even check the waters with stepping away from that as a result of and even perhaps collaborating with someone as a result of I get the factor about I may simply spend time and

Preston (34:30.943)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (34:50.285)
cash, largely cash to outsource some administrative issues. Which once I do develop my enterprise, that looks like a no brainer that I’ll do. However I really type of generally, I simply wish to collaborate with designers too. Like I’ve been working in a silo for thus lengthy. I believe I’m extra fearful that someone’s not going to ship

Clay Mosley (34:53.591)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (35:18.557)
the fitting high quality on time, then I’m really releasing some fairly sizable initiatives to someone to only see what that seems like. To see it. Yeah.

Preston (35:23.475)
Hmm.

Preston (35:30.099)
Effectively, I like that you just’re interested by it that manner. And I’d simply remind you once more, then that there are many designers who ship on time, ship early. Um, yeah, I believe it could take a minute to seek out the one who works in your, in your finest timetable, however you already know, there’s, there’s plenty of dependable freelancers on the market, gifted, dependable freelancers.

Tina Zegel (35:45.981)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (35:51.394)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (35:52.47)
I do know it must be the obvious factor and for no matter motive I’m like caught on the facet of this large wall there’s all these succesful designers on the opposite facet of it

Preston (36:05.719)
And the one option to overcome that’s to have and have a optimistic expertise, proper? They are saying experiences create beliefs. You’ve someplace alongside the road, you’ve had an expertise or a couple of perhaps the place somebody hasn’t delivered, proper? And so that you’ve constructed up this perception in your thoughts. And so that you must have some optimistic experiences. You’ll want to discover some freelancers who offer you a optimistic expertise by way of deadline. And that’ll begin to change. And also you’ll begin to go, huh, okay, individuals can ship on time. I can belief them to do this.

Clay Mosley (36:10.07)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (36:35.866)
Yeah, I hope in six months or 12 months every time I resolve to provide it a go, I hope I can simply get again on the on a name and say I did it and it labored nicely and smartest thing ever.

Clay Mosley (36:47.342)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (36:48.103)
Effectively, we hope so too. It’s been an actual pleasure chatting with you at this time. This has been enjoyable for me. We’ve talked about some issues we’ve by no means talked about on the present earlier than. So thanks, Tina, for having the braveness to come back on the present and let everybody hear what you’re as much as. If you want to hitch us, we’d like to have you ever listener. Please go to free after which simply scroll to the underside of the web page, join a time and we chat about your small business. Tina, earlier than you go, will you let all people know the place they will join with you in case they wish to work with you?

Tina Zegel (37:16.277)
Completely. So I’m on LinkedIn. I’m embarrassed to say I don’t know my actual URL to get there, however my web site is TinaZigel.com. It’s T-I- And from there, you could find me on LinkedIn additionally.

Preston (37:35.839)
I adore it. Tina, thanks a lot. I’ve been Preston from millow.co, and naturally, Clay from getdripify.com. Thanks for becoming a member of us at this time, Clay. We’ll speak to you guys subsequent time.

Clay Mosley (37:36.654)
Good.

Clay Mosley (37:45.087)
See ya!

Tina Zegel (37:45.929)
Thanks.

 

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